Todd Greenberg is a fool

[novice chook]

Great Post. But what many of us are talking about is when around 70-90% of "50/50 calls" go to ONE team only for an entire game or a long stretch of time. Particularly critical calls at critical times. We've all seen it and team copping a reaming needs to play like Gods to overcome the continued swings of momentum and points to the other team.

One solution, that I think the Roosters have adopted is accept every single bad call and play till the last whistle...............12 wins by 6 or less...........7 wins by 2 or less

Over time I think you will find that the 50/50 calls even themselves out for most teams. It may take a year or two. I suspect a lot of it is also down to how the players interact with certain refs, espec the captains. Like it or not Cam Smith has it down to a fine art, and if other captains followed his lead, rather than antagonise the refs, they may get better calls. From what I've heard on SportsEars at the game, Jake has actually toned down his aggressiveness towards them, which can only be a bonus, and Boyd is quite neutral with them.

You are never going to get the result you want by yelling in a referees face and telling him he's wrong and demand he change it - the typical human reaction is to take exception to the aggression and do the exact opposite. Can you imagine what would happen if a referee got in the player's face and screamed at him - he'd probably get decked, in the heat of the moment.

Everyone knows that there are real problems within the refs ranks and those officials in the bunker. But it is really no different to a club and it's roster - recruitment and retention mistakes are made and the team suffers. But as with most coaches, there are only so many mistakes that Archer can cover up and not be held responsible for. As Greenburg said in his presser, some of the refs are fighting for contracts for next year., same as players. And Archer is under pressure - and like Henry and Maguire, it will only take 1 tipping point and he will be out the door. It may not play out in the media like the Hasler debacle, but I'm sure at NRL HQ there are more than a few heads on the chopping block if the officiating doesn't improve.

[Mickie Lane]

If fans or coaches are not happy with the refs the bunker or Todd Greenberg then go & follow another game. I'm sick to death of all the whinging. The game is fantastic yet a lot of people just want to find the negative in the game.
There is no such thing as perfection, players & coaches stuff up all the time & if this constant negativity of decisions keeps up there will be no game because there will be no refs & no administration of the game.

[dice]

It is the arrogance of the bunker that is the problem.


"Clear evidence"

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"Insufficient evidence"

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[Tommy Smith]

^^^ Indeed.

Overturning the Walker try was a disgrace.

What delicious justice after Manly didn't have a problem with the decision directly below it.

[Game Fowl]

I am an unabashed fan of the single referee system , I studied each individual referees style and coached to suit, my ethos when coaching was to take the effect of the referee out of the game by not giving him a decision to make.

The reality is the game has gotten too fast for one referee so who knows what is going through their heads as their are usually 4-8 separate minds contributing to each decision, most times if it looks wrong it is wrong , go with instinct don't over analysis each element before and after the decision.

The problem is that for the sake of the spectacle , officials aim to make the Game faster, unfortunately basic rules are being ignored and the consistency of the decisions are suffering.

Get back to basics blow penalties earlier in the Game to "draw the line in the Sand" on important elements before they become crucial close to the scoreline.

Some areas which can be cleaned up

• The Ruck area is a disgrace stepping forward and to the side when playing the ball takes the markers out of play , to avoid this the markers are standing side by side.
• Defensive sides have 100M to repel any assaults on their Scoreline , why rely on millimetres and nit picking to find any reason to disallow a try? by all means the Bunker should pull it up if it is blatantly wrong ?
• Attacking Players have a duty to respect the ball in the Contact and the Carry , Defenders hold the ball because of the threat of the offload due to length of time variance from the "held call".

Back to basics, address the fundamentals of refereeing early in the game by getting the little decisions right the big ones come easier - the rule book was written in Black and White, it is the Grey areas that are clouding the decision making process.

[player 1]

I am an unabashed fan of the single referee system , I studied each individual referees style and coached to suit, my ethos when coaching was to take the effect of the referee out of the game by not giving him a decision to make.

The reality is the game has gotten too fast for one referee so who knows what is going through their heads as their are usually 4-8 separate minds contributing to each decision, most times if it looks wrong it is wrong , go with instinct don't over analysis each element before and after the decision.

The problem is that for the sake of the spectacle , officials aim to make the Game faster, unfortunately basic rules are being ignored and the consistency of the decisions are suffering.

Get back to basics blow penalties earlier in the Game to "draw the line in the Sand" on important elements before they become crucial close to the scoreline.

Some areas which can be cleaned up

• The Ruck area is a disgrace stepping forward and to the side when playing the ball takes the markers out of play , to avoid this the markers are standing side by side.
• Defensive sides have 100M to repel any assaults on their Scoreline , why rely on millimetres and nit picking to find any reason to disallow a try? by all means the Bunker should pull it up if it is blatantly wrong ?
• Attacking Players have a duty to respect the ball in the Contact and the Carry , Defenders hold the ball because of the threat of the offload due to length of time variance from the "held call".

Back to basics, address the fundamentals of refereeing early in the game by getting the little decisions right the big ones come easier - the rule book was written in Black and White, it is the Grey areas that are clouding the decision making process.

Agree, well said.

For the record, Barrett and especially Flanno are both whinging sooks.

[roosterchook]

Theres only one way to improve this situation and that's to allow player appeals. 3 per team per match. Only when a try is disputed. It could help a hell of a lot to get some wrong tries reversed before the game is lost as well as reduce tensions between players, coaches & refs. Tennis and cricket use this system and it doesn't take away from the enjoyability of the game at all.

A refereee is not infallible but when you look at all the hard work a team puts in all year, imagine if we get eliminated on a wrong ref call? These situations need to be corrected on field as much as possible before a wrong result has come about due to ref error.

Reviewing something as crucial as a try, penalty try, sin bin or send of is a must because these decisions are game breakers. Strong evidence needs to replace emotion.

[PeeGee]

Theres only one way to improve this situation and that's to allow player appeals. 3 per team per match. Only when a try is disputed. It could help a hell of a lot to get some wrong tries reversed before the game is lost as well as reduce tensions between players, coaches & refs. Tennis and cricket use this system and it doesn't take away from the enjoyability of the game at all.

A refereee is not infallible but when you look at all the hard work a team puts in all year, imagine if we get eliminated on a wrong ref call? These situations need to be corrected on field as much as possible before a wrong result has come about due to ref error.

Reviewing something as crucial as a try, penalty try, sin bin or send of is a must because these decisions are game breakers. Strong evidence needs to replace emotion.

Pretty good idea. What do you think?
Would the appeal be using the bunker to review the on field decision? Could the bunkers decision to overrule be appealed - tough one I guess who would review the bunker?
if a decision of try or no try is absolutely impossible to make with no conclusive vision, who would get the benefit of the doubt? Tough one that also.
Lastly, who would appeal? The attacking team or the defending team?

Im starting to see how complex these decision appeal systems or processes could get....

what do you guys think?

[Kingbilly]

I think that the manly try was def no try. I think he definitely does not have both feet behind the ball. Someone put a pic up with a line draw. That line was NOT parallel to the 10m line on the field

[The Lip]

One part of refereeing I am not clear on at all is when should the ref call held?

Sometimes you you can drag a player out or back in goal and the ref allows it. I understand if momentum has stopped and then a second effort to do the above a penalty should be blown or held called. But often enough a player is about to get pushed back in goal or out and momentum is gaining rather than stopped and still they call held or blow a penalty - I just can't work out the ruling - is it refs discretion? If so leaves a huge hole for a refs preference for the result to be impacted. There seems to be no consistency inside the one game let alone from one game or ref to the next with this one?

[PeeGee]

I think that the manly try was def no try. I think he definitely does not have both feet behind the ball. Someone put a pic up with a line draw. That line was NOT parallel to the 10m line on the field

Agree, No Try

[Johnny Tobin]

Not wanting to start a political firestorm in here but I have a real problem with Greenberg weighing in on same sex marriage. Even worse, he says it's the right thing to do. In other words, all those NRL fans that either don't care, won't vote or will vote no are doing thing. It has nothing to do with the game and he should keep his head out of it.

[novice chook]

Not wanting to start a political firestorm in here but I have a real problem with Greenberg weighing in on same sex marriage. Even worse, he says it's the right thing to do. In other words, all those NRL fans that either don't care, won't vote or will vote no are doing thing. It has nothing to do with the game and he should keep his head out of it.

Must admit that I was surprised that Greenburg has stated that the game will take the stance that it has. You have to wonder who he consulted with at NRL HQ on that, if anyone. Certainly it's not a debate I would expect the game to be involved in. Ian Roberts must be a very good wordsmith to get that result from a mere email.

Certainly doesn't influence my vote one way or the other. And I'd prefer Greenburg to put all his time and effort into getting his own NRL house in order and not be distracted by things that don't concern he or the game.

[Darkone]

In context we should be the most aggrieved regarding the refs calls,

last season their decisions affected how we responded, as a result we lost most of the close ones

This year, the same crap treatment from the refs

But we are responding differently & guess what, winning the close ones

A deserved team will overcome as best they can, otherwise cop it sweet.

EVERY TEAM GETS THE RUB OF THE GREEN

WHEN....is the connundrum

[Nathan Aboud]

Sorry but reading of this I have to ask these questions (as I did start this debate);

1. Does Greenberg and the Referee's train in the heat of the summer nearly 5 days a week to prepare their bodies for the impact and speed of the competition;
2. Do they know what it is like to tackle and run your hearts out until you are out of breath?;
3. Has Greenberg ever put his body on the line physically to defend his man next to him, and cover for his team (Just look at what happen with John Grant)....

FLANAGAN HAD EVERY RIGHT TO SAY WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!!!

Yeah sure his team made errors, and gave away penalties, had a pathetic first half... HOWEVER, if anyone who has played the game or any team sport knows that if you fight hard enough and rectify your issues and errors on the field to put yourself in a position to win the match JUST LIKE THE SHARKS DID!!!!! Then to me the rules are not simply black and white anymore and the officials should have a feel for the game in order to put their whistles away and use their game management skills to keep control NOT TO BLOW THE CRAP OUT OF IT ESPECIALLY IN THE SECOND HALF!!!

Our game on Friday had only penalties, which I would expect to see in Finals Footy. All the other games, including the Sharks had double that which is disgraceful as that is telling me the Referees in those games never had control of the game, and did not manage nor get a feel for finals footy. The Walker No Try was a turning point as Penrith were shot to crap at that stage, Manly would have run away with it....

Greenberg and the Referee's cannot understand what the players do and feel on the field at most times as I totally agree with Phil Rothfield's assessment.