Poor planning

[Rooster_6]

Both can run at holes.

Guerra adds another dimension in his ability to break tackles with strength and create second phase play.

That said, he does not have MAubs' clean-up workrate or defensive prowess.

I reckon Aubusson is severely underrated round here. Played a big role in our 2010 success.

Agreed, the only similarity is they both run good overs and unders.

Apart from that Guerra plays a lot tighter and takes a lot more hit ups but is very average in defence.

Aubusson is a handy ball player with awesome defence.

[Rooster_6]

Jacob Miller is 19. Known for his attitude and is a completely unproven quantity. Daniel Mortimer is 22, won Rookie of the Year, played in a Grand Final and unfortunately with a new coach at the helm, became the scapegoat for the Eels.

Some of you people can't actually grasp what an unbelievably good calculated risk bringing Mortimer in is. No harm done even if he isn't up to the task. IMO he will be the feel good story of 2012 not one T.Carney.

1) He never won Rookie of the year
2) Playing in a Grand Final is not a representation of an individual's ability.

[theGman]

You must be his manager.. Name me the other positions he can play? The rest is just dribble and not related at all to footballing ability.

No i'm not Steve Gilles.
Daniel has played five-eight, half & hooker and will probably be utilised there by coach Smith.
You might consider the rest as dribble but it's FACT and my opinion.
The bloke has got football ability, no question. Some Roosters fans have forgotten his skills or are too pissed off about his
signing to acknowledge this.

[Headless Chook]

guerra and maubs are not exactly similar players and both should have been retained. the person who i think is way overrated that we have retained is taka. yes he played a couple of decent games for us but when you look at guys like leilua and even cherrington who i still maintain is better than taka and add the fact that we have also lost ethan lowe as a result of keeping taka, i cant really see the justification but its not a big deal imo because our first choice backrow is unlikely to involve any of those players.

back to guerra and maubs, although both are hole runners and relish playing off short balls on the edges, they have very different builds and strengths. maubs has great footwork, low tackling and agility. guerra is more powerful, is bigger and can play tighter to the ruck and do a lot of the dirty work that maubs doesnt particularly in terms of hit-ups. they complement each other very well and i dont think it was ever a matter of one or the other.

as for the thread, i agree with the general premise - i cant understand why we decided to release miller and now blair for that matter considering both still had plenty of TYC in them and they are products of our youth development system but i still think mortimer is a good risk to take. in fact realisitically, he isnt really a risk imo. the risk is that he doesnt end up as todd carneys replacement. is that what he has even been recruited to do and there arent really many players in the comp that could replace a carney anyway. if he does happen to solve our long term 5/8 issue then i see it more as a bonus than him fulfilling his purpose/averting a risk.

Maybe we couldn't compete in the cash stakes?

[ism22]

I reckon Ryles basically quit and him leaving was mutual.
After losing so many senior players + Carney, with our remaining senior players set to leave next season, we have a LOT of money left under the cap I reckon.

IMO our plan is to train up the youngsters, keep guns like Guerra, Kennedy, Mose and co + make a couple of high profile signings WHEN THEY ARE AVAILABLE... Probably also taking into account salary cap increases because they will make us more competitive with other codes.

I predict that we'll end up with something like:
- Dugan
- Perrett
- SKD
- Maubs
- Leilua? (I reckon we'll sign a pedigree winger and punt him to the centres/SR though)
- _________ (Mortimer if he goes gun... which, hey... He might! I still think he got punted because Hayne is really the parra #6 and the 2 had clashes over the role... Which Hayne won.)
- Pearce (say what you like... NSW 5/8 he is)
- FPN (or is he the other prop?)
- Friend
- Kennedy
- 11 & 12 take your pick... JWH, Cherro, Symonds, Cordner, Mataka...
- 13 Again take your pick...

We're basically a FB, Winger, 5/8 and specialist centre (I.e. SBW) short of a top 8 team... and don't think we can't afford all 3!!! There just don't happen to be too many on the market right now.

Think Dugan at FB, Quade Cooper at 5/8 (he is amazing at club level... Forget his current injury and world cup for a sec) and SBW on the wing (where he often plays in Union.)

Bicker and say x, y and z are not YOUR #1 choice... Go ahead, but I think we can afford 4 players of that market value by 2013 quite easily (to take choice/subjectivity out of this.) Remember Braith and Mini will be gone too.

Smith has a plan, and the focus is on youth... if Mortimer comes good (like he did in 2009) then we can fark off the need for a new 5/8 and spend money on another winger or centre. In Smith I trust!!!! It's just a matter of waiting until the new salary cap rules + more players to enter the market in the areas where we need talent. Seriously... what rep-grade wingers and halves are currently on the market? NONE unless you wanna pay millions for Soward/DCE/Sandow-esque halves who may or may not have a good 2012/13!!!! Faaark me dead if we had one of them on 400k+!!!!

[Juggler]

Never needed to be a first-grade quality half. Just need to keep our promising youngsters like Miller.

Of course it could of and should of been planned for given his history, Anasta was always a safety net but we're back to square 1 now rather than having a promising youngster who could fill the spot we're out there looking for one.

The salary cap doesnt really allow you to keep the backups you might like. Especially if they are being offered a better deal elsewhere.

[Guest]

People can talk about how Mortimer was cheap and he's still young but it's the events and lack of planning that leaves me annoyed. The signing as much as I don't rate the kid isn't a massive problem because he's only seen as a utility/back up.

Simple business... Risk analysis & contingency plans.

Todd Carney was always a risk, Jacob Miller was seemingly our contingency plan. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but someone seriously screwed up here.

Not only did we loose Miller but we had to (based on the information & events so far) release Ryles to clear space for a fringe first grader.

Forget Mortimer for a second and try to justify losing Miller and Ryles for a fringe first grader. I honestly hope I'm proven wrong and there's a big signing or some big re-signings on the way because at least then it would show the club actually have some type of medium to long term plan but I don't hold many hopes.

I rarely ever have a dig at the club but I can't stand people trying to justify the signing for all the reasons listed in Cockadoodle's thread when the real issue is we should've never been in this place to begin with.

Per season .The players bought by the club would add up to about 6 or 7 hunge, the players released 1.5 mil, a few resignings 3hunge. that leaves about 4 to 6 hunge, correct me if i'm wrong. The Roosters still have 4 to 6 hunge to spend for 2012??

[Guest]

I reckon Ryles basically quit and him leaving was mutual.
After losing so many senior players + Carney, with our remaining senior players set to leave next season, we have a LOT of money left under the cap I reckon.

IMO our plan is to train up the youngsters, keep guns like Guerra, Kennedy, Mose and co + make a couple of high profile signings WHEN THEY ARE AVAILABLE... Probably also taking into account salary cap increases because they will make us more competitive with other codes.

I predict that we'll end up with something like:
- Dugan
- Perrett
- SKD
- Maubs
- Leilua? (I reckon we'll sign a pedigree winger and punt him to the centres/SR though)
- _________ (Mortimer if he goes gun... which, hey... He might! I still think he got punted because Hayne is really the parra #6 and the 2 had clashes over the role... Which Hayne won.)
- Pearce (say what you like... NSW 5/8 he is)
- FPN (or is he the other prop?)
- Friend
- Kennedy
- 11 & 12 take your pick... JWH, Cherro, Symonds, Cordner, Mataka...
- 13 Again take your pick...

We're basically a FB, Winger, 5/8 and specialist centre (I.e. SBW) short of a top 8 team... and don't think we can't afford all 3!!! There just don't happen to be too many on the market right now.

Think Dugan at FB, Quade Cooper at 5/8 (he is amazing at club level... Forget his current injury and world cup for a sec) and SBW on the wing (where he often plays in Union.)

Bicker and say x, y and z are not YOUR #1 choice... Go ahead, but I think we can afford 4 players of that market value by 2013 quite easily (to take choice/subjectivity out of this.) Remember Braith and Mini will be gone too.

Smith has a plan, and the focus is on youth... if Mortimer comes good (like he did in 2009) then we can fark off the need for a new 5/8 and spend money on another winger or centre. In Smith I trust!!!! It's just a matter of waiting until the new salary cap rules + more players to enter the market in the areas where we need talent. Seriously... what rep-grade wingers and halves are currently on the market? NONE unless you wanna pay millions for Soward/DCE/Sandow-esque halves who may or may not have a good 2012/13!!!! Faaark me dead if we had one of them on 400k+!!!!

Mataka has left the building!

[Vasco]

Very disappointed in losing Ryles.. he did well enough this year up front

He played about 3 or 4 good games this season.

He also gave away far too many penalties, many on the fourth or fifth tackle. Many of those led to tries to the opposition.

I won't miss him.

[Cockadoodledoo]

No i'm not Steve Gilles.
Daniel has played five-eight, half & hooker and will probably be utilised there by coach Smith.
You might consider the rest as dribble but it's FACT and my opinion.
The bloke has got football ability, no question. Some Roosters fans have forgotten his skills or are too pissed off about his
signing to acknowledge this.

A contradiction if ever I heard one.. Can you list out for me his achievements in those other positions? Rep honours etc? Just like a little more substantiation..

[supermario]

I- _________ (Mortimer if he goes gun... which, hey... He might! I still think he got punted because Hayne is really the parra #6 and the 2 had clashes over the role... Which Hayne won.)

i like this point you brought up........we talk about Anasta whinging about playing a different position......i would not be suprised if parra had the same situation with Hayne.

During many parra games, you saw hayne named at FB but the shuffle happened and burt went to FB and Hayne to 5/8.......i think with an ego like Hayne in the side, i would not be suprised if there were clashes, or at least hayne whinging......

[theGman]

A contradiction if ever I heard one.. Can you list out for me his achievements in those other positions? Rep honours etc? Just like a little more substantiation..

Cock....sorry, but we seem to be on a different wavelength. BTW, why such pessimism?

Morts may not yet have represented but i hope he makes all you critics eat humble pie.

[Rooster_6]

The salary cap doesnt really allow you to keep the backups you might like. Especially if they are being offered a better deal elsewhere.

It does when they're in the NYC Salary cap, had 2 years to run on their contract and wanted to stay at the club.

[Cockadoodledoo]

The salary cap doesnt really allow you to keep the backups you might like. Especially if they are being offered a better deal elsewhere.

the Tigers salary cap did.

[Yak]

guerra and maubs are not exactly similar players and both should have been retained. the person who i think is way overrated that we have retained is taka. yes he played a couple of decent games for us but when you look at guys like leilua and even cherrington who i still maintain is better than taka and add the fact that we have also lost ethan lowe as a result of keeping taka, i cant really see the justification but its not a big deal imo because our first choice backrow is unlikely to involve any of those players.

back to guerra and maubs, although both are hole runners and relish playing off short balls on the edges, they have very different builds and strengths. maubs has great footwork, low tackling and agility. guerra is more powerful, is bigger and can play tighter to the ruck and do a lot of the dirty work that maubs doesnt particularly in terms of hit-ups. they complement each other very well and i dont think it was ever a matter of one or the other.

as for the thread, i agree with the general premise - i cant understand why we decided to release miller and now blair for that matter considering both still had plenty of TYC in them and they are products of our youth development system but i still think mortimer is a good risk to take. in fact realisitically, he isnt really a risk imo. the risk is that he doesnt end up as todd carneys replacement. is that what he has even been recruited to do and there arent really many players in the comp that could replace a carney anyway. if he does happen to solve our long term 5/8 issue then i see it more as a bonus than him fulfilling his purpose/averting a risk.

Have to disagree there Roz. Taka provides the team's best second phase play which is going to be crucial next year with the lack of creativity we have in the halves. I agree that Leilua and Cherrington are both "potentially" better backrowers but lets face it Leilua is not being considered as a backrower by Smith anyway and will most likely spend most of the year on the wing if Moga comes on early in the season (not that i would agree with him on the wing again). And Cherrington is hardly a certainty to ever play first grade again, let alone be as effective an offloader as he was (very difficult for people overcoming serious knee injuries to take focus away from body position and knee orientation in order to focus on offloading the ball while being tackled). Guerra has an offload but only really uses it after a half break because his hit and spin positions him well. When he is stopped at first impact he never considers offloading (not saying that's always a bad thing). Ryles is gone and he gave us a lot of good 2nd phase. FPN should concentrate on his running because he's best used 3rd or 4th tackle getting us on the front foot for a backline movement next play. I would have Taka on the bench to start the season without any hesitation. I think people would be surprised to see how many times a line break or try was created off the back of his offloading and footwork at the line. He certainly does need to work on his fitness over the pre-season though. He never stops trying but does look pretty buggered out there half the time. Despite this I have not yet seen him make a poor read in defence or drop off an important tackle.

What impresses me most, and I've expressed this a few times on here, is his passion when he plays and the things he does that go unnoticed by many that make up the sort of player I want playing for the Roosters. He berates himself like no other player out there when he makes a mistake which is much better to see than all this high-fiving bullsh!t. And an example of one of the 1%ers that I've noticed was in the game against the Sharks. There was 10 seconds left and we were 5 points ahead. The ball was played out on the right side just before FPN scored, Taka was on the left side. From dummy half Friend went to the short side and as he passed Takairangi started sprinting from the other side of the field over to the right side about 10m behind the play just in case of an intercept or drop ball so there would be someone to defend beyond the front line (as Mini was up attacking). The ball got switched to FPN and he went across the field to the left and Taka sprinted back from behind the play to get back on the left side, even called for the ball mind you, and was the first one to FPN after he scored to celebrate. It might seem small and irrelevant at the end of the day but that's the guy I want in my team. A guy who puts in the extra effort with 10 secs left and no real chance of defeat just to make sure.

Sorry about such a long post just to make a point but I thought you of all people would understand.