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  • “Roosters push refs to limit”

    ROOSTERS PUSH REFS TO LIMIT
    PHIL ROTHFIELD

    THESE are the statistics that reveal a startling refereeing penalty imbalance against the Sydney Roosters since Trent Robinson started as head coach in 2013. An analysis of penalty counts over the last eight seasons shows the Roosters have consistently been by far the most heavily punished team by referees, despite winning three titles. In 227 games under Robinson, the Roosters have won the penalty count in only 29 per cent of those matches and that they have a penalty count differential of -243 since Robinson started, which is more than double the next worst team, the Wests Tigers (-105 ). St George Illawarra (152), South Sydney (150) and North Queensland (120) have all enjoyed a massive advantage in their penalty count differential over the same period. The Sydney Roosters’ 300-game legend Luke Ricketson has slammed the treatment of his former club, suggesting there is a “subconscious bias” against his old team. “It’s really frustrating and we need to be asking questions,” Ricketson said. “I’m questioning whether we’re a team they’d want to make an example of. Maybe they think if we’re hard on the Roosters we’ll get our point across. “You know what I mean … go heavy on the Roosters because they can handle it. They’ve got money. They’ve got big hitters on the board. “It’s un-Australian to whinge and carry on like spoiled brats but these statistics don’t lie. I get really angry watching it.” Roosters supremo Nick Politis was reluctant to comment but The Daily Telegraph understands he has spoken to NRL bosses Peter V’landys and Andrew Abdo in recent weeks about his concerns. Their record at the judiciary this year is equally as lopsided compared to their 15 rival clubs. “I’ll just say this,” Politis said, “We’re not a dirty team and we don’t go out to cheat or break the rules. “We play tough but we play with integrity and don’t lie down to get penalties.” The Roosters have employed a former referee, Chris James, as their head of football. Plus Robinson speaks to the NRL’s head of football Graham Annesley and referees boss Jared Maxwell regularly. Annesley was unconcerned by the trend when contacted by The Daily Telegraph. “In any statistical analysis like this there will always be a team at the top and a team at the bottom with every other club falling somewhere in between ,” Annesley said. “If this story wasn’t about the Roosters it would be about some other club at the bottom of the stats. “The numbers are what they are. Referees can only rule on what happens on the field. They don’t commit the offences, they simply respond to them when they occur. Any suggestion that there has been some sort of sustained agenda against any club over such a long period of time across multiple administrations, multiple referees coaches, and a constant rotation of referees in and out of the NRL, is simply false. Referees perform an essential service without which our game does not exist. They carry out their thankless task to the best of their ability every week, every year, without fear or favour.” Ricketson, who is a director at the Roosters, says he is speaking up for the fans, members and sponsors. And to protect Robinson. “I’m honestly confused,” he said. “We have the smartest coach in the game. He’s a rugby league purist. He’s educating the players all the time. Someone has to speak on his behalf. “Sure, there was an issue with Victor (Radley), but they’ve worked hard to fix it. We’re not perfect but there’s so many 50/50 calls that they adjudicate on the run under the new rules that completely go against us. “Robbo accepts when the team doesn’t play well but I can see the frustration in his eyes when he has to sit there at his press conferences. “He’s had so many conversations with the NRL but hasn’t been able to get through.” What the Roosters have had success with is challenging judiciary charges. While most of their NRL rivals accept their fate from the match review committee, the Roosters don’t . They contest almost 40 per cent of their charges and have more than 20 per cent overturned. No other club has a success record higher than 10 per cent. Since 2019, the Roosters have faced 42 charges, third most behind Brisbane (49) and Canterbury (43). Of those, they challenged 16 of them. Seven were found guilty at the panel, eight were deemed not guilty and one offence was downgraded. Canberra (22), Newcastle (24) and Manly (30) have faced the fewest charges.

  • #2
    As many have said in the past, it’s the penalty’s we don’t get that create the heavy negative differential.

    Comment


    • #3
      So we’ll win the penalty count this week, and back to normal for the remainder of the season.

      Comment


      • #4
        I can just imagine all the anti Roosters comments.
        All fans from other clubs will see from this is Roosters systematically give away more penalties.
        They don’t want to here our side of the story, as we all know that our opposition suddenly turn perfect and don’t give away penalties.
        No one wants to here that Robbo coaches not to lay down and feign injury. This is our main issue and I don’t know why the NRL aren’t supporting us here.
        ‘There needs to be an investigation’

        Comment


        • #5
          I can’t find this article, anyone got a link?

          Comment


          • #6
            It's irritating because I was able to watch 2 weeks of Olympic sports without once having an issue with the refs (okay I lie... the basketball reffing in the bronze medal match was terrible, but that's one single game).

            Back to NRL and it's straight back to inconsistency/irritation all around. Further, people are suspended every week for minor contact (which IMO is overly harsh compared with most global sports).

            Makes me wonder if it's a training/professionalism thing where the players & coaches have stepped it up a few notches and the refs are still pretty basic. IMO they're very emotional and regularly have too much of an impact on the outcome by focussing too much on a pet peeve, while ignoring everything else.

            Comment


            • #7
              “In any statistical analysis like this there will always be a team at the top and a team at the bottom with every other club falling somewhere in between ,” Annesley said. “If this story wasn’t about the Roosters it would be about some other club at the bottom of the stats. “

              Fair enough. But how many years would a single team need to be at or near the bottom of such an analysis before questions can legitimately be asked? Maybe not one or two, but twenty?

              Anyway, I look forward to hearing from the usual people here how Ricko, Politis and Robinson should remove their tin foil conspiracy theory caps and accept that we deserve everything we get from the refs.

              Comment


              • #8
                Of course Annusley misses the point entirely. The statistically anomalous penalty differential is due to the penalties the Roosters don’t receive.
                "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

                Thomas Jefferson

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have 2 comments.

                  1. Graham Annesley is an idiot (and probably also a cheat)
                  2. If people want to claim that we're coached to give away penalties or have poor discipline under Robbo, how can they explain the fact that since 2000 we have only had a positive penalty count differential across a season 3 times (+2 in 2002, +28 in 2004, +4 in 2016). In this period we have had 6 different coaches, so that narrative doesn't check out.
                  Relative to other teams, we have finished in the bottom 5 for penalty count win % 16 times since 2000, also finishing in the top 5 only twice (2004 and 2016). By comparison, Souths have finished in the top 5 13 times since 2004.

                  The NRL clearly holds a long-standing bias against the Roosters and it's about time they are held responsible

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TheLoneRooster View Post
                    Of course Annusley misses the point entirely. The statistically anomalous penalty differential is due to the penalties the Roosters don’t receive.
                    I think that's the thing that annoys Roosters fans the most. We can see that most of the penalties we incur are deserved but it's when the opposition commits the same offence without punishment that leads to frustration. Perfect example is the JWH sin bin and then the non-penalty for Mitch Kenny for a much worse example of the same offence

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      yep, annesley is battening down the hatches without thinking. fair enough, one team is going to be most penalised and one least, but a good, well coached team winning less than a third of the penalty counts? has that ever happened before in the history of the game? i'm willing to accept:
                      Any suggestion that there has been some sort of sustained agenda against any club over such a long period of time across multiple administrations, multiple referees coaches, and a constant rotation of referees in and out of the NRL, is simply false.
                      but the next sentence:
                      Referees perform an essential service without which our game does not exist.
                      is just drivel. mate, don't worry, we accept the need for refs. if you think we're saying we don't need refs you're clearly not thinking about the issue sensibly. and we're not saying that there is a sustained agenda v us but you need to have a look at whether there is an unconscious bias v us. have the refs ever talked about players that they need to watch? has jwh ever been discussed? have the refs ever discussed that the roosters don't lie down for penalties and adjusted their decision making accordingly or will they only give a penalty for, say, a crusher tackle if a player stands up holding his neck?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BenCumminsIsACheat View Post
                        I have 2 comments.

                        1. Graham Annesley is an idiot (and probably also a cheat)
                        2. If people want to claim that we're coached to give away penalties or have poor discipline under Robbo, how can they explain the fact that since 2000 we have only had a positive penalty count differential across a season 3 times (+2 in 2002, +28 in 2004, +4 in 2016). In this period we have had 6 different coaches, so that narrative doesn't check out.
                        Relative to other teams, we have finished in the bottom 5 for penalty count win % 16 times since 2000, also finishing in the top 5 only twice (2004 and 2016). By comparison, Souths have finished in the top 5 13 times since 2004.

                        The NRL clearly holds a long-standing bias against the Roosters and it's about time they are held responsible
                        Just to further dispel the narrative that Robbo wants to give away penalties or that his sides are poorly disciplined, in the 7 full seasons he has been our coach (2013-2020), our penalty count differential is -213.
                        In the 7 full seasons prior to that (2005-2012), our penalty count differential was -200.

                        So it seems as though that those who cling on to this idea might need to find themselves a new argument

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Roosters is always an easy target because it's the Roosters due our recent history of success. It's very frustrating to watch games lately and I don't recall if any games we were given fair calls from the refs

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Over breakfast, I thought I'd look at the NRL penalty stats over the past 14 years. Specifically, I looked at penalty differentials - that is, the difference between the number of penalties a team gets and the number it concedes. One would expect these would fluctuate over time with different teams, different coaches and different levels of performance. I looked at the figures for the last 14 years (to cover two broken mirrors worth of bad luck)..

                            Number of times each team finished in the BOTTOM three for penalty differentials 2008-2021 (i.e. gave away more penalties than they received):

                            Brisbane 2
                            Canterbury 3
                            Canberra 2
                            Cronulla 0
                            Gold Coast 3
                            Manly 2
                            Melbourne 3
                            New Zealand 3
                            Newcastle 1
                            North Queensland 3
                            Parramatta 3
                            Penrith 2
                            Souffs 1
                            St George 0
                            Tigers 3
                            Roosters 11

                            So, over 14 years, teams have generally been in the bottom three about 2 or 3 times. But not the Roosters. This is what they call a "statistical outlier".

                            Next I looked at the number of times each team finished in the TOP three for penalty differentials 2008-2021 (i.e. received more penalties than they gave away):

                            ​​​​​​Brisbane 3
                            Canterbury 1
                            Canberra 4
                            Cronulla 6
                            Gold Coast 1
                            Manly 1
                            Melbourne 1
                            New Zealand 1
                            Newcastle 1
                            North Queensland 3
                            Parramatta 4
                            Penrith 1
                            Souffs 6
                            St George 5
                            Tigers 2
                            Roosters 0

                            Again, over 14 years, every team has finished in the top three at least once, with saintly teams like Souffs, Cronulla and St George there in 5 or 6 years. But not the Roosters. In this period, we've never even come close to the top 3 - the best we ever got was 6th in 2016.

                            So getting back to Annesley's remarks, yes, statistically somebody's got to finish last, but what is it about the Roosters' penalty stats that makes them so different from everybody else?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Team Evil View Post
                              I can’t find this article, anyone got a link?
                              https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...1bccf09e5c061d

                              There are two headings.

                              Revealed: How referees are stuffing the Chooks

                              Sydney Roosters are the most penalised NRL team under coach Trent Robinson’s tenure


                              Hopefully Buzz will talk about this tonight on NRL 360...
                              Last edited by ROC181; 08-11-2021, 10:33 AM.

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