Round 17: Sydney Roosters Vs St George Illawarra Dragons game and discussion thread

[Guest]

To be honest Mack, to start the season I'd have Morbs in our starting 17 over both JWH and Cordner.

With Fitzy leaving we need a solid defensive bloke to do clean up work. Morbs would fit the bill nicely as a second rower.

The younger blokes will have plenty of opportunities throughout the season what with injuries and suspensions. But I'd start them off on the bench at some stage and build them up to longer minutes over time.


NC

Agreed, but with the depth in the pack that we already have, and Braith being shifted to lock to accommodate Carney, plus our lack of depth in the centres, we can use Morbs as a safe option in the centres, while blooding in JWH or Cordner, who from all accounts are soon to be very very good firstgraders.

I think Morbs is one of, if not, the best lock we have in our side. His best game for the roosters was against Parra when he played lock IMO

I know that Anasta will move to lock if Carney comes on board. I just don't see Anasta having the defensive workrate of a Morbs at lock.

That is the issue though. When Carney comes, Braith will have to go somewhere. Carney is a 5-8, Pearce is a halfback, Anasta is a 5-8/lock. If Anasta shifts to lock though, I would expect him to be playing on one fringe, with Sa out on the other fringe, and either JWH or Cordner doing a lot of hard yards up the middle.

[Guest]

Their right side is their strongest side defensively. Many have tried and failed this year.

Having Sailor, Scott, Prior and Jeremy Smith when fit generally on that side is a pretty hard line to crack, with or without Soward.

With Jeremy Smith and Beau Scott out, we've got them at a good time, with Weyman gone as well obviously. Come finals time though, if they're close to fielding all of those players they'll be a damn hard side to beat.

I'm not sold on it yet mate. Some teams will set out to target a side's edge come what may. Before you can exploit any perceived weakness you have to dominate the ruck and then pick out areas which can be targeted. The poorly coached teams will try and target a smaller player by having their backrower standing wide and deep. But by the time the ball gets out to them the numbers are already there to take the initial contact. The saints do this beautifully with Scott on the right and Cooper on the left. But the better sides don't fall into that trap.

You mentioned Sailor I still question him. If I was coaching Easts on Friday I'd be kicking in behind Sailor all night. Whether it is early in the tackle count or grubbers behind him I dont think he has been put under pressure this season. Saints are a strong side no doubt, but there are still some soft areas where I think the better sides can beat them. Storm and Bulldogs match up favourably against them in certain areas and they exploited them when they played this season. I mean even the Tigers last week created plenty of chances but they didn't execute well enough.

That said on Friday even though the saints are missing their two important defensive components I still think we will fall short. Although the last month I think we have improved tactically. We are standing much flatter in attack and Friend's ability to give good early service has improved us greatly. I think we will fall short by 6-12.

[Guest]

That is the issue though. When Carney comes, Braith will have to go somewhere. Carney is a 5-8, Pearce is a halfback, Anasta is a 5-8/lock. If Anasta shifts to lock though, I would expect him to be playing on one fringe, with Sa out on the other fringe, and either JWH or Cordner doing a lot of hard yards up the middle.

Carney also plays as halfback...
I wouldn't assume that a bloke who's lucky to have his career resurrected after going on a rampage through Goulburn would be able to push our captain out of his favourite position.

I haven't seen him play much though... how good is Carney? At his best, Anasta's one of the best 5/8's in the game...

And... maybe I'm wrong? He's been out of the game for 12 months or something... my guess is he'd come in on the bench... maybe start after showing some good form?

[Guest]

Carney also plays as halfback...
I wouldn't assume that a bloke who's lucky to have his career resurrected after going on a rampage through Goulburn would be able to push our captain out of his favourite position.

I haven't seen him play much though... how good is Carney? At his best, Anasta's one of the best 5/8's in the game...

And... maybe I'm wrong? He's been out of the game for 12 months or something... my guess is he'd come in on the bench... maybe start after showing some good form?

In short, yes you are wrong.

If Carney does join us, he will be 5/8, Pearce halfback and Anasta at lock or potentially bench utility. No other reason we would sign him. Anasta on his day a few years ago was one of the best 5/8's in the game, and can still be a very strong running five-eight, but his kicking game leaves alot to be desired, as does his choice of passes... And this is where Carney has it all over Anasta.

[Guest]

I'm not sold on it yet mate. Some teams will set out to target a side's edge come what may. Before you can exploit any perceived weakness you have to dominate the ruck and then pick out areas which can be targeted. The poorly coached teams will try and target a smaller player by having their backrower standing wide and deep. But by the time the ball gets out to them the numbers are already there to take the initial contact. The saints do this beautifully with Scott on the right and Cooper on the left. But the better sides don't fall into that trap.

That is easier said than done when you've got mobile backrowers like Smith, Creagh and Prior. It's the most mobile backrow in the game IMO. Dragons have one of the best linespeeds in the business.

You mentioned Sailor I still question him. If I was coaching Easts on Friday I'd be kicking in behind Sailor all night. Whether it is early in the tackle count or grubbers behind him I dont think he has been put under pressure this season.

That is why Soward is so handy down that right side, he is one of the quickest to the ball in cleanup's of kicks in the game. It's a part of his game that goes largely unnoticed but is one of the driving forces behind him having so many linebreaks this year.

Saints are a strong side no doubt, but there are still some soft areas where I think the better sides can beat them. Storm and Bulldogs match up favourably against them in certain areas and they exploited them when they played this season. I mean even the Tigers last week created plenty of chances but they didn't execute well enough.

What better sides are you talking about? Storm played the dragons in round 1, and beat them by 1 point, down in melbourne. Dogs played them at Jubilee and got dominated for 60 minutes when the dragons attack wasn't working (a 20 minute period nearly saw the bulldogs come back and win it). Their attack has significantly increased since playing both sides.

As for the tigers, they lost Weyman with 15 minutes gone, and were carrying Matt Head and Nightingale on the bench, only having one front rower available. That game was still over at half time, Tigers never really looked like scoring even with all the possession.

That said on Friday even though the saints are missing their two important defensive components I still think we will fall short. Although the last month I think we have improved tactically. We are standing much flatter in attack and Friend's ability to give good early service has improved us greatly. I think we will fall short by 6-12.

I don't know how we're going to go this week. The loss of Weyman has put a spanner in the works for tipping IMO. They still have a good forward pack but they lack that real meter eater. I think they'll win, but only just. But Mason needs to show up again if we're going to be a chance.

[melon....]

And they'll still choke come September.

[Guest]

Whilst we are choking on the loins of 2 dollar hookers on our end of season trip.

But you are missing one point, they have a coach now that is a winner not a pretender like Brown or a perennial choker in smith, a bloke that just knows how to win.

And just for my mate melon an under rated Halfback who is also a winner

[Pass the Ball]

Prior will not be able to hide Soward...

Once we find him...It is try time..

[Guest]

And just for my mate melon an under rated Halfback who is also a winner

Hornby is underrated and also a winner?

[Guest]

Prior will not be able to hide Soward...

Once we find him...It is try time..

It'd be great if we had elusive outside backs.

[Guest]

what about this south african we sign. will he be ready by round one next year??

[Guest]

what about this south african we sign. will he be ready by round one next year??

He's only 18, and never played League, doesn't even know the rules. It will be probably be long odds. He has good wraps in South African rugby though.

[Guest]

yea but union is a much more technical and complicated game, where as league is a lot simpler and structured, so it may not be that hard for him to adapt.
because unions defence is so close and compressed its the job of the backs to create holes in the defence. this can easily be incorporated to league, and with JP being a centre i believe he should assume this role as this is what our current centres cant seem to do.

hopefully we will see him around halfway through next season.

[Guest]

[B]yea but union is a much more technical and complicated game, where as league is a lot simpler and structured, so it may not be that hard for him to adapt.

because unions defence is so close and compressed its the job of the backs to create holes in the defence. this can easily be incorporated to league, and with JP being a centre i believe he should assume this role as this is what our current centres cant seem to do.

hopefully we will see him around halfway through next season.

Centers and Wingers is a far less complicated game in Union than it is in league. Defense is the big obvious thing, work rate, and whether to slide or play up and in is a difficult skill to master when making the leap from union. The mindset and decisions you make are completely different. Not to mention the aerial game is alot tougher in league. Every set on a teams line generally involves defusing a kick, most union plays are through the hands.

[Guest]

Not to mention the aerial game is alot tougher in league. Every set on a teams line generally involves defusing a kick, most union plays are through the hands.

I would debate that... in League you generally do your 5 tackles then either bomb it or do a grubber (it's generally quite predictable and the faster legs, or winner in a 50:50 situation will generally get the ball.) There's also the 40/20 kick (which I'm hoping Carney can bring to our game!!)

Union... you kick whenever as there's no tackle limit, and no matter where you are on the field will often intentionally aim to kick the ball into touch off the bounce as this can gain significant ground on the opposition if your lineout is solid. Wingers like Lote are always on the lookout for sneaky kicks into touch because a lineout in the 20 you're defending is never pretty (a stolen ball quite often leads to a try.) That, and if you catch an ill-placed one, you can do a quick lineout and catch them off guard.

That, and a drop goal's worth 3 points in Union! (so drop goals 2 = more than a try) Jonny Wilkinson exposed this one in the world cup a while back and dominated a lot of running teams who were scoring 4-5 tries to England's 0 tries, but still managed to lose.

So I think Union's a far more intense kicking game whereas League's restricted to bombs, grubbers and 40/20's. That's why I like League actually... more running! In Union I never quite get used to the fact people will intentionally kick the ball into touch from anywhere on the field as this could advantage them...

Sorta makes me wonder how Matt Giteau would go in League...