Round 17: Sydney Roosters Vs St George Illawarra Dragons game and discussion thread

[melon....]

And just for my mate melon an under rated Halfback who is also a winner

At touch footy.

[melon....]

I would debate that... in League you generally do your 5 tackles then either bomb it or do a grubber (it's generally quite predictable and the faster legs, or winner in a 50:50 situation will generally get the ball.) There's also the 40/20 kick (which I'm hoping Carney can bring to our game!!)

Union... you kick whenever as there's no tackle limit, and no matter where you are on the field will often intentionally aim to kick the ball into touch off the bounce as this can gain significant ground on the opposition if your lineout is solid. Wingers like Lote are always on the lookout for sneaky kicks into touch because a lineout in the 20 you're defending is never pretty (a stolen ball quite often leads to a try.) That, and if you catch an ill-placed one, you can do a quick lineout and catch them off guard.

That, and a drop goal's worth 3 points in Union! (so drop goals 2 = more than a try) Jonny Wilkinson exposed this one in the world cup a while back and dominated a lot of running teams who were scoring 4-5 tries to England's 0 tries, but still managed to lose.

So I think Union's a far more intense kicking game whereas League's restricted to bombs, grubbers and 40/20's. That's why I like League actually... more running! In Union I never quite get used to the fact people will intentionally kick the ball into touch from anywhere on the field as this could advantage them...

Sorta makes me wonder how Matt Giteau would go in League...

matt's old man Ron went alright in league.

What i hate about kicking in Union is it is a soft option for even softer fullbacks. Get caught deep and just kick it out on the full...what rubbish is that?

In league you also have the kick that uses defense to attack. You kick the ball out, not on the full like unruly uncontrolled union, but deep inside the opposition half and use your fast and furious defense to stop teams from making ground in the ensuing set of tackles. Field Position. You may get the ball back in a favourable postion, you may force an error near the opposition's goal line.

I hate the fact union players can escape cheaply by just booting the ball out on the full. There's no skill in that.

[Guest]

I would like to see some of the league players have the ability to kick as well as the union players. A penalty kick from half way is done often in union but it is a huge thing in league.

[supermario]

I want to see a kicking duel return to league !!!

[Guest]

I would debate that... in League you generally do your 5 tackles then either bomb it or do a grubber (it's generally quite predictable and the faster legs, or winner in a 50:50 situation will generally get the ball.) There's also the 40/20 kick (which I'm hoping Carney can bring to our game!!)

Union... you kick whenever as there's no tackle limit, and no matter where you are on the field will often intentionally aim to kick the ball into touch off the bounce as this can gain significant ground on the opposition if your lineout is solid. Wingers like Lote are always on the lookout for sneaky kicks into touch because a lineout in the 20 you're defending is never pretty (a stolen ball quite often leads to a try.) That, and if you catch an ill-placed one, you can do a quick lineout and catch them off guard.

All of which can and is done in League, with the exception of lineouts. Union it is alot easier to defend kicks because your outside defenders can defend alot deeper for the entire time the opposition has the ball due to the speed of the ruck and maul, it's alot harder to get overlaps when you've got 5 or 6 attackers tied up around the ball. Yes union can kick at any time, but it's generally for field position, not attacking. The worst thing about it is defenders just pick up the ball and belt it back up field.

That, and a drop goal's worth 3 points in Union! (so drop goals 2 = more than a try) Jonny Wilkinson exposed this one in the world cup a while back and dominated a lot of running teams who were scoring 4-5 tries to England's 0 tries, but still managed to lose.

I don't see how any of that is relevant when we're talking about the defensive requirements for a winger/center, rarely do your 3/4 charge down kicks.

So I think Union's a far more intense kicking game whereas League's restricted to bombs, grubbers and 40/20's. That's why I like League actually... more running! In Union I never quite get used to the fact people will intentionally kick the ball into touch from anywhere on the field as this could advantage them...

Sorta makes me wonder how Matt Giteau would go in League...

Union is more intense in kicking in the sense that many players in your side kick the ball. It is not more intense in terms of the quality or accuracy of kicks when in an attacking position. The accuracy and variation of NRL halves kicking games is generally far more than that in union. The air and grubber game are far more difficult to contain on the line than in union. Union when at the line is generally a ground and pound game, then runs it through the hands.

[Pass the Ball]

Did anyone catch the replay of the 1980 Easts vs Canterbury GF on Fox the other night??

What a horrible game of footy..

The kicking duels may have been the highlight..

[Guest]

Did anyone catch the replay of the 1980 Easts vs Canterbury GF on Fox the other night??

What a horrible game of footy..

The kicking duels may have been the highlight..

I did. Reminded me what a cheat Hartley was

[Guest]

I did. Reminded me what a cheat Hartley was

What happened?

[Guest]

What happened?

I just think he was "Biased" when the dogs were playing.

In the GF, he let a very blatent forward pass go from Chris Mortimer to Chris Anderson which lead to Anderson's try under the post. I think he was the only guy on the field or in the stands who missed it

[Guest]

That is easier said than done when you've got mobile backrowers like Smith, Creagh and Prior. It's the most mobile backrow in the game IMO. Dragons have one of the best linespeeds in the business.

That is why Soward is so handy down that right side, he is one of the quickest to the ball in cleanup's of kicks in the game. It's a part of his game that goes largely unnoticed but is one of the driving forces behind him having so many linebreaks this year.

What better sides are you talking about? Storm played the dragons in round 1, and beat them by 1 point, down in melbourne. Dogs played them at Jubilee and got dominated for 60 minutes when the dragons attack wasn't working (a 20 minute period nearly saw the bulldogs come back and win it). Their attack has significantly increased since playing both sides.

As for the tigers, they lost Weyman with 15 minutes gone, and were carrying Matt Head and Nightingale on the bench, only having one front rower available. That game was still over at half time, Tigers never really looked like scoring even with all the possession.

I don't know how we're going to go this week. The loss of Weyman has put a spanner in the works for tipping IMO. They still have a good forward pack but they lack that real meter eater. I think they'll win, but only just. But Mason needs to show up again if we're going to be a chance.

I agree that is saints greatest strength their mobility across the park. Creagh and Smith paticuraly are great at scrambling once a break is made. Smith is obviously well coached from Melbourne with the way he can tighten up the ruck and slow the play down. He is like Cameron in that sense.

Saints have been strong in defence across the park and that means everyone plays a part. They are well organised and everyone has a clear role. As you see with us where we have leaked points when defending, it only takes one player to make a wrong a decision and it ruins everything. Everyone has to be on the same page. But I still get back to Sailor I don't think he has been under pressure all season. I think he has errors in him.

Better sides then us, which are plenty. I still think it is an even competition where the standard of the top teams are no where near as strong as previous years. I used Melbourne and Canterbury as examples because IMO they are two sides who can compete with the dragons. They both are as tough as the dragons and are strong defensively. But IMO they have individually better players in key positions.

As I said above the dragons scramble better then any other side. But if Benji had executed better the tigers had points in them. Lawrence and Tuiaki looked very dangerous on their left side.

We will give it a good shot on friday. But we will fall short.

[Guest]

Have a little faith people.

[Guest]

Better sides then us, which are plenty. I still think it is an even competition where the standard of the top teams are no where near as strong as previous years. I used Melbourne and Canterbury as examples because IMO they are two sides who can compete with the dragons. They both are as tough as the dragons and are strong defensively. But IMO they have individually better players in key positions.

I wouldn't say the Bulldogs are all that strong defensively. They've had some large totals put on them, it's pretty rare that they have 14 or less scored against them, with little disruption to their squad with injuries or origin duties. Dragons and Storm are so far ahead of the comp in terms of their defensive structure it's actually quite scary. I disagree that the top teams aren't as strong as previous years, I'd just say instead of a top 2 sides being a mile infront of the competition, it is now 4 teams. Realistically at this point I can only say with any great certainty that the Storm, Dogs, Dragons and Manly will threaten for the title. Titans are on a good run, but I think they'll start to faulter soon again. Rest of the top 8 sides are legless, and the bottom 8 is even worse.

You could argue the merits of each of those sides listed for their hopes of a title, but come finals time, any of them can win it. Dragons have been the most consistent, Bulldogs shown the most attacking flair, Storm and Manly both starting to hit their straps, but it'll only be a 4 horse race.

[Guest]

I wouldn't say the Bulldogs are all that strong defensively. They've had some large totals put on them, it's pretty rare that they have 14 or less scored against them, with little disruption to their squad with injuries or origin duties. Dragons and Storm are so far ahead of the comp in terms of their defensive structure it's actually quite scary. I disagree that the top teams aren't as strong as previous years, I'd just say instead of a top 2 sides being a mile infront of the competition, it is now 4 teams. Realistically at this point I can only say with any great certainty that the Storm, Dogs, Dragons and Manly will threaten for the title. Titans are on a good run, but I think they'll start to faulter soon again. Rest of the top 8 sides are legless, and the bottom 8 is even worse.

You could argue the merits of each of those sides listed for their hopes of a title, but come finals time, any of them can win it. Dragons have been the most consistent, Bulldogs shown the most attacking flair, Storm and Manly both starting to hit their straps, but it'll only be a 4 horse race.

I agree that it is probably only a 3-4 horse race. I didn't include Manly because IMO they are no where near as hungry this season. Last year it looked like they played with a chip on their shoulder and they had something to prove. All credit to them, Hasler had them primed on GF day and they belted a busted Melbourne. This season it is clear the success has got to them, while they are capable of winning I just don't think they will.

I disagree that the quality of the top sides are as strong as previous seasons. Just using last year as an example. Manly were exceptional, this season they are missing a few senior players. Melbourne were also much stronger just looking at the players they have lost. Crocker, Folau, Smith Geyer and co. But I suppose that is the salary cap at work. I don't think we will see too many more glamour or star studded sides dominate for years like a decade ago. Bulldogs are a great example they went from last to first in a season just by buying themselves out of trouble. You are able to do that in this system.

[Chookies74]

chooks $4.65 H to H
chooks $6 1-12

I'm stupid, I'm having a little lick at the 1-12

[elo]

Lopini out?

That hurts if true.