Bat on no try

[Rooster_6]

Where is the distinction between a "tip-on/bat-on" and a regular pass?

Where does this appear in the rules?

The international laws of Rugby League define a pass as "a throw of the ball".

A knock on is defined as:

Knock On means to knock the ball towards the opponent's dead ball line with hand or arm.

A tip on/bat on is to knock the ball, not throw it which is why it isn't deemed as a pass.

[Rooster_6]

lol...it is ur opinion just as it was Adams Gees opinion. U are assuming referees are infallible lol.

The bat on in question was part of the backline PASSING movement. Or are u saying Walker tried to catch it?

A bat on is counted as a pass in league context, it ain't a dance or a sexual experience hehe.

Go on, find me evidence in the actual laws to say a bat on is not a pass...otherwise clearly u are wrong...

https://www.rugby-league.com/governa...ws-of-the-game

In the international laws a pass is defined as a throw, a knock on is considered a knock of the ball towars the oppositions goal line.

If you are reasonable about it a tip on/bat on is a knock of the ball more than it is a throw of the ball which is the way referees have officiated on it for as long as I can remember.

Again these are just the facts and what the officials have to adjudicate to.

My opinion is that it's illogical to apply a different interpretation to what constitutes a forward pass and what constitutes a knock on. If you are willing to accept that momentum or wind can impact the overall direction of a pass as is written into the rule book then surely you must also accept those factors when assessing a knock on.

[Rocky Rhodes]

Whether it is a traditional pass or tap on the same rule would apply - I haven't studied it that much to see any examples of backward tap on's that travel forward due to the momentum of the ball.

A Tap on although not defined in the rules per se would still be deemed a pass and subject to the same law and rule that defines any pass -Legal or forward

Exactly...all u need to apply is a bit of common sense if it ain't specified in the rules. The idea of a PASS is to transfer the ball to another player, whether that be a regular pass, a flick pass or a bat on pass. If Walker tried to catch it and run himself then and only then it would have been a knock on. He clearly tried to get the ball to Momies hence a pass.

[Spirit of 66]

The international laws of Rugby League define a pass as "a throw of the ball".

A knock on is defined as:

Knock On means to knock the ball towards the opponent's dead ball line with hand or arm.

A tip on/bat on is to knock the ball, not throw it which is why it isn't deemed as a pass.

If this is true - and maybe it is - then all tap on passes MUST be knock ons UNLESS the person knocking it is dead still. If he is moving forward he MUST transfer momentum to the ball. So is that your interpretation?

As Scotty said to Captain Kirk, “Ya canna change the laws of physics, Jim.”

[Inflictor]

I agree with R6.

It's like when someone throws a pass and hits a players hands without an attempt to tap it on. If it goes backwards the ref calls knocked back and knock on if he/she thinks it travels forward.

Walker was not attempting a pass and the ball travelled forward off his hands. Knock on all day.

Carry on. I'll come back when the thread hits 8 pages.

[player 1]

I agree with R6.

It's like when someone throws a pass and hits a players hands without an attempt to tap it on. If it goes backwards the ref calls knocked back and knock on if he/she thinks it travels forward.

Walker was not attempting a pass and the ball travelled forward off his hands. Knock on all day.

Carry on. I'll come back when the thread hits 8 pages.

Incorrect.

And only 3 pages so far.

[Rooster_6]

If this is true - and maybe it is - then all tap on passes MUST be knock ons UNLESS the person knocking it is dead still. If he is moving forward he MUST transfer momentum to the ball. So is that your interpretation?

As Scotty said to Captain Kirk, “Ya canna change the laws of physics, Jim.”

Not sure about all but yes makes it very hard to tap on the ball in a backline movement such as that without it ending up beyond the point it was touched.

Which is why I said I think its illogical to have a different interpretation for what constitutes a forward pass and what constitutes a knock on but under the current rules & interpretations Adam Gee was 100% correct, the ball was undeniably promoted towards the opponents goal line.

[Carlos Parra]

It was clearly a try. No ifs, no buts.

[King Salvo]

https://www.rugby-league.com/governa...ws-of-the-game

In the international laws a pass is defined as a throw, a knock on is considered a knock of the ball towars the oppositions goal line.

If you are reasonable about it a tip on/bat on is a knock of the ball more than it is a throw of the ball which is the way referees have officiated on it for as long as I can remember.

Again these are just the facts and what the officials have to adjudicate to.

My opinion is that it's illogical to apply a different interpretation to what constitutes a forward pass and what constitutes a knock on. If you are willing to accept that momentum or wind can impact the overall direction of a pass as is written into the rule book then surely you must also accept those factors when assessing a knock on.

If the ball goes backwards from a tip on/tap on/bat on it would be legal the same as a conventional pass is - If the ball goes forward from a tip on/tap on/bat on then it would be ruled forward same as a conventional pass would be - seen many tries scored from tip on's/tap on's and bat on's over the years.

A player can't tip/tap/bat or throw the ball over the head of an opponent and regather it though.

[King Salvo]

The international laws of Rugby League define a pass as "a throw of the ball".

A knock on is defined as:

Knock On means to knock the ball towards the opponent's dead ball line with hand or arm.

A tip on/bat on is to knock the ball, not throw it which is why it isn't deemed as a pass.

Whether the ball is tipped/ tapped/ batted /passed it doesn't matter what the transfer method was - If the transfer of the ball from one player to another player went backwards then it's play on.

The transfer of the ball can be by the methods mentioned above and even by a kick - ball lose on the ground is kicked backwards to a fellow play in your side is still legal although not a throw of the ball as defined in the ILRL.

[Jacks Fur Coat]

Looked a fair try, bat on directed back but only bounced forward. Idiots.

[The Lip]

Ball was passed backwards from the hands then batted along by Toups before bouncing forward. I though it was a try but maybe a bat on that bounces forwards could be viewed as a knock on? After all, a tap on is not exactly a pass.

Any ball that goes out of the hands or off the hands backwards is not a knock on. The bounce is irrelevant totally irrelevant to it being a knock on or not.

[King Salvo]

Any ball that goes out of the hands or off the hands backwards is not a knock on. The bounce is irrelevant totally irrelevant to it being a knock on or not.

The Suaalii try was an example of that - the Pass from Manu was fine but the ball hit the deck and rolled forward - play on

[Rocky Rhodes]

https://www.rugby-league.com/governa...ws-of-the-game

In the international laws a pass is defined as a throw, a knock on is considered a knock of the ball towars the oppositions goal line.

If you are reasonable about it a tip on/bat on is a knock of the ball more than it is a throw of the ball which is the way referees have officiated on it for as long as I can remember.

Again these are just the facts and what the officials have to adjudicate to.

My opinion is that it's illogical to apply a different interpretation to what constitutes a forward pass and what constitutes a knock on. If you are willing to accept that momentum or wind can impact the overall direction of a pass as is written into the rule book then surely you must also accept those factors when assessing a knock on.

Firstly, u should watch that video posted by Spirit of 66..maybe then u will wake up that most passes ain't forward although they appear to be. Watch that over head pass too...considered a pass but not a throwing action.

And if a pass depends on throwing action then according to u all flick passes are a knock on??

What's the difference between a tap on and a flick...both use same wrist action but one generally uses arms down (flick) and the other arms above head (tap on) with same wrist action.u should know wrist action R6... And time in possession has no relevance for been a pass..whether milli sec or a minute..

So why didn't ur hero A Gee rule Manu's pass for Sualli's try a knock on? It wasn't a throw and it hit the ground..

[ism22]

The international laws of Rugby League define a pass as "a throw of the ball".

A knock on is defined as:

Knock On means to knock the ball towards the opponent's dead ball line with hand or arm.

A tip on/bat on is to knock the ball, not throw it which is why it isn't deemed as a pass.

I think it's irrelevant how it bounces... to 'knock the ball towards the dead ball line' refers to the verb KNOCK. The KNOCK is the tapping motion and excludes any other factors that one may observe.

IMO a plain English reading of the rule you have cited is that if you knock (aka 'hit') a ball in the direction of the opponent's dead ball line with your hand, it's a knock-on. However if you hit it in the opposite direction, there is no known rule that disallows that. Further, there's no wording on actions beyond your control such as 'bouncing', so they cannot constitute valid penalties.

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Regarding the call, I suspect the ref called it early to avoid another Crichton-esque situation where the pass cannot form part of deciding whether the grounding was okay.

I suspect refs were directed to ire on the side of caution on the basis that we can challenge the knock-on ruling if we like. We didn't, so IMO that plays out too... Teddy was of the opinion it wasn't worth challenging.

That's good enough to me really. Not on the letter of the rules, but on the basis that you're flipping a coin when challenging a ruling on a ball that's gone to ground and bounced. More often than not, balls that go to ground are deemed to be knock-ons. Easier to just cop it and focus on your defence rather than getting all emo in that situation.