Klein… friend to some, foe to others.

[Vee08]

Generally I believe refs are not the reason teams lose games… players, coaches, management have to own that… BUT I do see plenty of inconsistencies & bias, in plenty of refereeing decisions???

Gus Gould, who I think is as old as Bennett or there abouts, & is still toiling in this business (former Rooster & all)… even said point blank last night during his commentary, when South Sydney are not given 3 penalties in a row to get out of trouble, they are a very ordinary side…

Is there a stat to quantify decisions turning games? The proverbial leg up? 100 to 1 penalties in your favour, in the wrong part of the field, at the wrong time could theoretically hurt you vs a team with enough “cunning” & skill to turn things to their advantage?? Six again at the start of a set doesn’t hurt as much as at the end of a set… & depending where you are on the field?…

Just food for thought…& discussion. No wonder Premierships don’t come easy!!!

I see a win tonight v Sharks… bounce back with some sting!

RWB
E2W

[kakaruk]

I always thought Klein was biased against the chooks but watching him ref over the past couple of years I've changed my mind. about him. Hes just not a good ref Imo barley competent but not biased

[Nathan Aboud]

I bet the interpretations and confusion of the rules in Rugby League will go away once Klein and Gerard Sutton retire from Rugby League. If you look closely on all of the controversial games in the past 3 seasons, they have been decisions by wither one of these two both on the field and in the Bunker.

I really could not understand how Klein was the referee in last years grand final, when it was him who made that Bunker howler in the Cowboys v Tigers game last year.

Watch our games closely, Robbo gets the style of play he wants our team to play when either one of these two are not refereeing our games. If they are on our games, the certain facts are;

1. Our players get sin binned
2. We give away so many more 6 again's than the opposition (more than 40%)
3. We fold so quickly that we go from 85% to 67% in completion rates as we are just too fatigue from all the defending that we start making very silly errors
4. We either lose so convincingly or we win by like either 1 or 2 points
5. There is always one of our players reported, with no clear definition give to Teddy when he asks which then results either a no charge or fine from the MRC.
6. We are penalised so hard in the second half, including on the 4th or 5th tackle.

I like and enjoy watching us play when we have the upcoming referees cause we get to play the game the way we want, Atkins usually hits us hard in the first 5 to 10 minutes and then yet puts his whistle away in order to let us play but stamp the authority early on what is not accepted. When we lose under these other referee's then I can say we played terribly (like in Round 1) . Gus Gould said last year on 100% Footy that there is a great divide amongst the referee's as he also said he cannot stand watching Gerard Sutton referee as it came from that night we played and lost to Penrith that night.

Although we started good against Melbourne last week, once Radley got sin binned our game feel apart, however why was Olam not sin binned for the late hit on Walker after he threw the past to Paulo? Also, the one last night from Murray was even later than Radley's one last week as why was there no fuss about it??? Same referee as well so which one was right or wrong??

[player 1]

I bet the interpretations and confusion of the rules in Rugby League will go away once Klein and Gerard Sutton retire from Rugby League. If you look closely on all of the controversial games in the past 3 seasons, they have been decisions by wither one of these two both on the field and in the Bunker.

I really could not understand how Klein was the referee in last years grand final, when it was him who made that Bunker howler in the Cowboys v Tigers game last year.

Watch our games closely, Robbo gets the style of play he wants our team to play when either one of these two are not refereeing our games. If they are on our games, the certain facts are;

1. Our players get sin binned
2. We give away so many more 6 again's than the opposition (more than 40%)
3. We fold so quickly that we go from 85% to 67% in completion rates as we are just too fatigue from all the defending that we start making very silly errors
4. We either lose so convincingly or we win by like either 1 or 2 points
5. There is always one of our players reported, with no clear definition give to Teddy when he asks which then results either a no charge or fine from the MRC.
6. We are penalised so hard in the second half, including on the 4th or 5th tackle.

I like and enjoy watching us play when we have the upcoming referees cause we get to play the game the way we want, Atkins usually hits us hard in the first 5 to 10 minutes and then yet puts his whistle away in order to let us play but stamp the authority early on what is not accepted. When we lose under these other referee's then I can say we played terribly (like in Round 1) . Gus Gould said last year on 100% Footy that there is a great divide amongst the referee's as he also said he cannot stand watching Gerard Sutton referee as it came from that night we played and lost to Penrith that night.

Although we started good against Melbourne last week, once Radley got sin binned our game feel apart, however why was Olam not sin binned for the late hit on Walker after he threw the past to Paulo? Also, the one last night from Murray was even later than Radley's one last week as why was there no fuss about it??? Same referee as well so which one was right or wrong??

You speak the truth Nathan.

[player 1]

Generally I believe refs are not the reason teams lose games… players, coaches, management have to own that… BUT I do see plenty of inconsistencies & bias, in plenty of refereeing decisions???

Gus Gould, who I think is as old as Bennett or there abouts, & is still toiling in this business (former Rooster & all)… even said point blank last night during his commentary, when South Sydney are not given 3 penalties in a row to get out of trouble, they are a very ordinary side…

Is there a stat to quantify decisions turning games? The proverbial leg up? 100 to 1 penalties in your favour, in the wrong part of the field, at the wrong time could theoretically hurt you vs a team with enough “cunning” & skill to turn things to their advantage?? Six again at the start of a set doesn’t hurt as much as at the end of a set… & depending where you are on the field?…

Just food for thought…& discussion. No wonder Premierships don’t come easy!!!

I see a win tonight v Sharks… bounce back with some sting!

RWB
E2W

Amen.

[The Brain]

8-2 penalty count to vermin tonight, leaves Murray on the field after a late high hit, his second reported offence of the night, and bins a Dolphins player in 60th minute.

If by influential you mean a corrupt cheat of the worst kind, then yeah.

I could not believe what one of the commentators said.. ah Its ok because its Cameron Murray? really and if it was Victor off to the bin and report .
The phins were going alright until the officials gifted them 2 tries then the sin bin. both 2nd and 3rd tries should not of been.

[Random Rooster]

I honestly thought this howler would have ended Kleins career as a referee in any capacity....but all he got was a week off!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06cvBP8sEAo

He has had so many more howlers as a on field ref- including State of Origins. Its like somethings clicks in his head and he will go over the top penalising one team.

[ccfc bondi]

Actually the Roosters are in the black under Klein

Since 2009 Klein has refereed 56 times against the Roosters - under dual and single referee periods

The Roosters are one of 7 teams with a 50% or greater win ratio under Klein

Under Klein

1. Bulldogs - 25 wins - 15 losses - 62.50%
2. Brisbane - 25 wins - 16 losses - 60.98%
3. Melbourne - 34 wins - 24 losses - 59.65%
4. Roosters - 33 wins - 23 losses - 58.93%
5. Stg/Illa - 23 wins - 1 draw - 21 losses - 52.22%
6. Parra - 28 wins - 1 draw - 27 losses - 50.89%
7. Manly - 17 wins - 17 losses - 50%

2023 - 0 wins - 1 loss
2022 - 2 wins - 1 loss
2021 - 3 wins - 3 losses
2020 - 3 wins - 2 losses
2019 - 4 wins - 1 loss
2018 - 4 wins - 2 losses
2017 - 1 win - 1 loss
2016 - 2 wins - 1 loss
2015 - 3 wins - 1 loss
2014 - 2 wins - 0 losses
2013 - 4 wins - 3 losses
2012 - 1 wins - 3 losses
2011 - 0 wins - 1 loss
2010 - 3 wins - 1 loss
2009 - 1 win - 2 losses


https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/t.../referees.html

https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/m...0tLS0tLS0tLQ==

Win/Loss rates can just prove the Roosters have been successful despite his bias. In any case, their overall win rate under Robbo is 65%, so 58% with Klein doesn't say a great deal.

[King Salvo]

So if the Roosters win is the ref "biased" or is the ref only "biased" if they lose.

[Sentimentinel]

Atkins, Gee, the big red headed dude and that other turnip who binned rads twice in the Broncos game.

All have given us a good reaming over the years.

I mean, who cares about a little rich boutique club like ours?

Send the MONEY West, send it souff that's what it's all about.

And yea souffs a very ordinary team without their set restarts. Last night when I turned in before halftime it was very to and fro, no penalties for ages.

Dolphins had the upper hand going into the break.

I said before the season started and I'll say it again, this year has a 2014 stench to it.

[Waylander]

I think the refs are just pretty crap. Every supporter you talk to thinks their team gets consistently robbed. There is probably an element of unconscious bias involved. After all, the refs would have grown up playing and/or watching NRL and no doubt supported a team and probably hated others. It's not a big leap of imagination to think that that could play out in their decision making. I also think that some are referring according to their expectations. They expect a particular outcome, and their decisions reflect the way the expect a game to go. I'm NOT saying this is deliberate, just another form of unconscious bias.

In short, they aren't cheats, their just average humans doing a pretty average job of officiating.

[Johnny Brass]

I had to chuckle to myself the other day. Stumbled across a bulldogs fan page and they were blaming Gerard Sutton for their loss against Souths (they got beat by 40 ffs!) and commented that they have a poor record under Sutton in recent times. This ignores the fact they have a poor record regardless of the ref in recent times!!!

Sutton has had it in for the dogs ever since James Graham pointed the bent finger at him on a good Friday clash years ago.
I genuinely believe the Klein,Sutton's and Cummins regime have been incredibly biased against and for certain teams in the period they have been the dominant refs in the game.
If Klein is the best referee in the game I'll stand rooting, he gets the best gigs because of his skin colour and its politically correct not because of his ability.

[player 1]

Cameron Murray, twice placed on report for high tackles (one of them much later than Radley's which got him binned and lost us the game) - MRC only remembered to charge him for one, at the lowest grading. Also counts as "first offence" as they pretended the other one didn't happen.

Still waiting for an explanation why the sinbin crackdown on late tackles, the "memo" sent out to clubs, only lasted one week and only was applied to our club and only to Radley.

Must be "at referee's discretion".

Nothing to see here. Play on.

[SupermanSupportsEasts4Eva]

The standard of officiating in the game is terrible. As someone who follows other sports closely I can say that the NRL is the only sport where the refs 1. Continue to interfere in games and 2.Are constantly making in consistent decisions.
Some refs like Klien are just plan dumb, while others like Sutton & Cummins can't hide their unconscious bias. Atkins isn't too much better.
In no other sport are the officials discussed so much. That just goes to show how incompetent the current group of refs are. You know that a ref has done a good job when they aren't noticed. Win lose or draw, how many times do you hear someone comment on the inconsistency of a ref in a particular game? Its telling

[MCMLXVI]

A whole smattering of words that KS tried to put into my mouth, at the same time coming across as a very condescending person.

Do you shut the doors on your house, do you leave the keys in your car when you go shopping, can you please publish right here and right now all of your banking and card details, PINs and account numbers? In your world everyone is carrying on as though they are in the first scene of the Truman Show or waltzing through the hills, singing The Sound of Music. NRL refereeing is rotten and the love of money is the root of all evil.

Why do sports, especially in international games/competitions have neutral referees/umpires? Why are players not allowed to bet on games that they play? Why do you put NRL referees up on a pedestal, removing so many human traits that are inherent (to a certain degree) in all other mortals? The history of deception for financial gain is much larger and more widespread throughout the ages than your "history of upset fans". Why are referees even needed?

All that I was inferring was that the system of refereeing in the NRL is so terribly inconsistent. The enforcement of the rules is so unevenly distributed. You'd never board a plane with a pilot that had made as many errors as what NRL referees consistently make. I would fire anyone that works for me that showed such poor judgement and inconsistency. They, the NRL and the referees, are guilty of running the game way too subjectively. The only way to find the root of the problem is to dismiss, one by one, all potential reasons. Personal bias and monetary incentive can not be ruled out completely. They need to, as they regularly already do, review the refereeing system and improve it because it is currently unjust.