NYC Team for 2012

[Guest]

Graham AND Kheirallah were the preferred fullbacks on all occasions, Perrett didn't even come into it. It's a side point to the real argument but Smith has shown a resistance to move Perrett from the wing, certainly wouldn't be first choice.

I didn't forget Mortimer played First Grade, experience alone doesn't mean he'd be a better fullback than Wells though. That's a ludicrous suggestion, it might be valid had he actually played in the position of argument or in a position where he could display the full range of skills i.e on the wing taking high balls but even then we've seen wingers like Hayne who have struggled positionally in defence and leaked plenty of tries for their team. The most likely outcome is he'd be the next Kelly/Carney/Barba struggling to catch high balls and costing the team massively, although he doesn't have anywhere near the attacking skills of those mentioned.

I think Smith is wrong to have Mini as his first choice fullback I'm not sure why as a fan I'm not allowed to say that? As for who he picks after that no one knows, it's just a guessing game but fairly sure I'm still entitled to my opinion.

As to why I think Wells is the best, out of all the fullbacks you've mentioned he's the only one with the ability to create. A crucial skill for all modern day fullbacks that none of the others display and a crucial skill given our halves pairing this season. He's got great acceleration, very good support player, sound positionally in defence, solid under the high ball and good elusiveness. The only area he lacks in is his front on tackling.

He hasn't shown a resistance. He has shown that he believes/believed Kheirallah and Graham are/were better options. I still see nothing in what Smith has done or said to suggest he'd throw Wells at the back over Sammy P.

It's funny, you say my suggestion "might be valid had he actually played... in a position where he could display the full range of skills i.e on the wing," yet then go on to talk about how Wells can playmake, and how "crucial" a skill that is to have as a fullback.

Wingers don't playmake. Five-eighths do. So Mortimer has actually played a position in first grade that demonstrates the ability to perform part of what you seem to want out of a fullback - creativity with ball in hand. I don't think Carney or Barba cost/costed their sides "massively" at all; in fact, I reckon they were both good at the back. They had mistakes in them, sure, but they were dangerous.

It is all well and good to say Wells has "great this," "very good that" and a good head on his shoulders, but in my opinion you are underestimating the step up to first grade. Being positionially and defensively sound at a 20s level means nothing in the context of pin point first grade kicking games and towering bombs. It is like first graders stepping up to Origin - an entirely different kettle of fish.

You are allowed to think and say whatever you want. Believe me, I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong by consistent starring performances from Wells in the number one jersey. But I don't think it is going to happen. I think players who are physically and mentally ready for first grade will and should be picked ahead of him. I think Mortimer could surprise a few from fullback.

I also think Wells will play first grade one day. Just not as soon as you seem to think he will.

[Rooster_6]

He hasn't shown a resistance. He has shown that he believes/believed Kheirallah and Graham are/were better options. I still see nothing in what Smith has done or said to suggest he'd throw Wells at the back over Sammy P.

It was a side argument that I said Perrett wouldn't be first choice. Had nothing to do with Wells, just that Perrett wouldn't be first choice replacement as highlighted by last years selections.

It's funny, you say my suggestion "might be valid had he actually played... in a position where he could display the full range of skills i.e on the wing," yet then go on to talk about how Wells can playmake, and how "crucial" a skill that is to have as a fullback.

Full range of skills probably wasn't the correct wording, fundamental skills would be more ideal.

Wingers don't playmake. Five-eighths do. So Mortimer has actually played a position in first grade that demonstrates the ability to perform part of what you seem to want out of a fullback - creativity with ball in hand. I don't think Carney or Barba cost/costed their sides "massively" at all; in fact, I reckon they were both good at the back. They had mistakes in them, sure, but they were dangerous.

That's the only thing Mortimer has going for him and exactly why Smith thinks he might succeed. Carney was a liability at the back and if it wasn't for his exceptional attacking ability people would have realised it a lot earlier. Mortimer doesn't have anywhere near the ability of Carney or Barba and the advantage of having an extra ball player wont outweigh his inabilities in defence.

It is all well and good to say Wells has "great this," "very good that" and a good head on his shoulders, but in my opinion you are underestimating the step up to first grade. Being positionially and defensively sound at a 20s level means nothing in the context of pin point first grade kicking games and towering bombs. It is like first graders stepping up to Origin - an entirely different kettle of fish.

You are allowed to think and say whatever you want. Believe me, I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong by consistent starring performances from Wells in the number one jersey. But I don't think it is going to happen. I think players who are physically and mentally ready for first grade will and should be picked ahead of him. I think Mortimer could surprise a few from fullback.

I also think Wells will play first grade one day. Just not as soon as you seem to think he will.

I'm well aware of the step up, outside backs have been doing it successfully for years at young ages, if he was a half or a forward I'd hold a different opinion but he's more than ready. I also don't see him getting a game this season unless Mini gets an injury in the back half of the year but that doesn't change my opinion that he's the best fullback at the club. Many will hold the same opinion by the end of this season, trust me.

[Guest]

That's the only thing Mortimer has going for him and exactly why Smith thinks he might succeed. Carney was a liability at the back and if it wasn't for his exceptional attacking ability people would have realised it a lot earlier. Mortimer doesn't have anywhere near the ability of Carney or Barba and the advantage of having an extra ball player wont outweigh his inabilities in defence.

I'm well aware of the step up, outside backs have been doing it successfully for years at young ages, if he was a half or a forward I'd hold a different opinion but he's more than ready. I also don't see him getting a game this season unless Mini gets an injury in the back half of the year but that doesn't change my opinion that he's the best fullback at the club. Many will hold the same opinion by the end of this season, trust me.

A liability is ridiculously harsh.

A more balanced assessment would be that he was pretty dangerous from the back - you only need to see what he did to Souffs during his first game there - but made quite a few errors.

Mortimer, in my belief, has more than what he has shown the past few seasons. I think playing him at the back would be a great way to relieve the pressure he feels on-field.

Fullback is scarcely an "outside back" position - it is in the spine, and probably in the top five most important positions. So you're taking a lot of license suggesting it falls into the outside back category, but I'll play along. If fullback is an outside back, then a balanced assessment would say some outside backs make the step-up successfully - but most do not. Take our club as a microcosmic example: Tuigamala, Waqa, Naughton... the list goes on.

It takes a special player to be ready to walk into first grade at that age. You think Wells is special enough right now. I don't. I hope I'm wrong.

[Guest]

He hasn't shown a resistance. He has shown that he believes/believed Kheirallah and Graham are/were better options. I still see nothing in what Smith has done or said to suggest he'd throw Wells at the back over Sammy P.

It's funny, you say my suggestion "might be valid had he actually played... in a position where he could display the full range of skills i.e on the wing," yet then go on to talk about how Wells can playmake, and how "crucial" a skill that is to have as a fullback.

Wingers don't playmake. Five-eighths do. So Mortimer has actually played a position in first grade that demonstrates the ability to perform part of what you seem to want out of a fullback - creativity with ball in hand. I don't think Carney or Barba cost/costed their sides "massively" at all; in fact, I reckon they were both good at the back. They had mistakes in them, sure, but they were dangerous.

It is all well and good to say Wells has "great this," "very good that" and a good head on his shoulders, but in my opinion you are underestimating the step up to first grade. Being positionially and defensively sound at a 20s level means nothing in the context of pin point first grade kicking games and towering bombs. It is like first graders stepping up to Origin - an entirely different kettle of fish.

You are allowed to think and say whatever you want. Believe me, I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong by consistent starring performances from Wells in the number one jersey. But I don't think it is going to happen. I think players who are physically and mentally ready for first grade will and should be picked ahead of him. I think Mortimer could surprise a few from fullback.

I also think Wells will play first grade one day. Just not as soon as you seem to think he will.

I agree 98% with your post. The only thing I disagree with is Wells playing FG. I dont think he will get their, not at the Roosters anyway.

[Guest]

I still don't get how that disproves my opinion that Wells is the best fullback st the club?

You know what it doesn't.

You seem to know alot more about Wells than what I do & I gather you have seen him play a few times which I havn't.
He may be better than Mini but he is around 5th choice FB at the Roosters. It's a pity for Wells that you are not the coach.

[Guest]

A liability is ridiculously harsh.

A more balanced assessment would be that he was pretty dangerous from the back - you only need to see what he did to Souffs during his first game there - but made quite a few errors.

Mortimer, in my belief, has more than what he has shown the past few seasons. I think playing him at the back would be a great way to relieve the pressure he feels on-field.

Fullback is scarcely an "outside back" position - it is in the spine, and probably in the top five most important positions. So you're taking a lot of license suggesting it falls into the outside back category, but I'll play along. If fullback is an outside back, then a balanced assessment would say some outside backs make the step-up successfully - but most do not. Take our club as a microcosmic example: Tuigamala, Waqa, Naughton... the list goes on.

It takes a special player to be ready to walk into first grade at that age. You think Wells is special enough right now. I don't. I hope I'm wrong.

Didn't play first grade but had the wraps JP DuPlessis.
Ryan Williamson: world beater at marbles.
Chayse Blair: See if he does anything at Parra.

[Yak]

Mickey it amazes me that you can write Wells off so definitively without actually having seen him play. For the record, I think he will be the best fullback in the club by the end of the season. He is very vulnerable to making simple mistakes when recovering long kicks and glubbers. That facet along with his front on defence as R6 mentioned should be vastly improved after a full season at the back. Also, his communication from the back is not at the level of what Mini and Alofa offer at this stage. He is yet to play a full season of NYC at fullback and by the time he debuts in first his size will not be a problem whatsoever imo. If Mini goes down Smith will no doubt choose either Mortimer or Alofa ahead of Wells. But I do not believe Mortimer is a better fullback. More factors go through Smith's mind in this choice than just comparing the fullback play abilities of the two players.

On another note any of you guys coming to see how he and RTS go in the Belmore trial?

[Guest]

this little side argument i am not going to engage in but for the record, i agree with yak among others that wells is an excellent prospect as a fullback. he is in the minichiello, slater, locke mold of fast, agile elusive, support-playing fullback who also has the ability to chime in a few wide like slater and do a bit of ball playing. he is still raw and needs a full season of NYC but i can see him making the step up in the not too distant future. RTS we have not seen play but he does seem to have great natural talent although raw and does appear to have a good head on his shoulders that should put him in good stead in converting that into a top tear first grader. that said, dont discredit the fact that he has moved away from home to play with us.

What i wouldnt mind us seeing is signing michael gordon for a couple of years next year as he is currently at logger heads with cleary over the panthers fullback role. he is highly versatile and also around 28 years of age. what he would do is give us an excellent short term solution and buy time for the likes of RTS and wells. if however wells or RTS come through in a fullback capacity quickly, we can easily move gordon back to the wing or into the centres. Also, wells has spent plenty of time as a junior as a winger and he definitely has the height and build for it while RTS in union played just as much centre and wing as he did fullback so it may also bode as a good way to transition them into first grade by having gordon play fullback for a couple of years and let wells and RTS get used to first grade from the wing.

[Guest]

Hey Roz, what's the deal with Gordon & Cleary & how long is Gordon tied to the Panthers for? I really like Flash Gordon, good goal kicker too & I don't mind what you're proposing at all.

[Guest]

the inevitable problem which the panthers have is that coote is a specialist fullback and at ony 21 years of age, is their fullback for the next decade plus and a very good one at that. at the same time they have gordon who since coote has had a couple of difficult years with injury, he has filled in at fullback and in doing so earnt himself higher honours and set the panthers attack alight. He wants to play fullback, coote can only play fullback and cleary is trying to accomodate both but naturally someone is going to have to play out of position and that is likely to be gordon because he is older and also because he is better suited to other roles in the backline than coote is.

Its come to light that he has shown his disappointment and made clear that if he doesnt get the fullback gig he will more than likely leave so although its no secret that he and his family arent big roosters fans, he could well be worth our while with mini set to hang up the boots at year end

[Guest]

OK thanks, I think it's his Granny that rings up some of the sports radio shows & talks about her Micky, she does sound like a rusted on Panther, but it also sounds like she'd be fine with whatever Mick's choices are to do the best for himself.