NRL young talent - how does ours compare?

[Guest]

This is just a basic comparison, I will highlight the best young talent from each NRL team, which players graduated from NYC to NRL. Then we can see whether it is the team itself, or the player development, that can discern how good a talent pool is.

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Brisbane Broncos - Gerard Beale, Dale Copley, Jharal Yow Yeh, Josh Hoffman, Andrew McCullough, Josh McGuire, Alex Glenn (all Broncos NYC), Lagi Setu (Dragons NRL/NYC last year), Antonio Winterstein (Roosters NYC last year)

Canterbury Bulldogs - Ben Barba, Jamal Idris, John Kite, Heka Nanai (all Bulldogs NYC)

Canberra Raiders - Justin Carney, Jarrod Croker, Shaun Fensom, Daniel Vidot, Travis Waddell, Joel Thompson (all Raiders NYC)

Cronulla Sharks - Blake Ferguson, Nathan Stapleton, Jayson Bukuya (all Sharks NYC), Matthew Wright (Panthers NYC last year), Johnny Mannah (Eels NYC last year)

Gold Coast Titans - Shannon Walker, David Mead, Esi Tonga, Kevin Gordon, Will Matthews, Bodene Thompson, Jordan Rapana, Jordan Rankin (all Titans NYC)

Manly Sea Eagles - Kieran Foran, Jared Warea-Hargreaves (all Sea Eagles NYC), Tony Williams (Eels NYC last year)

Melbourne Storm - Kevin Proctor, Aiden Tolman, Joseph Tomane, Sam Joe (all Storm NYC), Willie Isa (Panthers NYC last year)

Newcastle Knights - Constantine Mika (Warriors NYC last year)

North Queensland Cowboys - Nick Slyney, Brandon Boor, Sam Bowie, Obediah Geia (all Cowboys NYC), James Tamou (Roosters NYC last year), Steve Rapira (Warriors NYC last year)

Parramatta Eels - Taniela Lasalo, Kris Keating, Daniel Mortimer, Tim Mannah (all Eels NYC)

Penrith Panthers - Daniel Penese, Sam McKendry, Tim Grant, Masada Iosefa, Wade Graham, Lachlan Coote, Junior Tia Kilifi, Joseph Paulo, Joel Romelo (all Panthers NYC)

South Sydney Rabbitohs - Chris Sandow, Eddy Pettybourne, Luke Capewell (all Rabbitohs NYC)

St George Illawarra Dragons - Chase Stanley, Trent Merrin, Lagi Setu (all Dragons NYC)

Sydney Roosters - Jake Friend, Ben Jones, Tom Symonds, Martin Kennedy, Stanley Waqa, Rohan Ahern, Anthony Cherrington, Sandor Earl (all Roosters NYC), Sonny Tuigamala (Panthers NYC)

New Zealand Warriors - Sonny Fai (R.I.P.), Ben Matulino, Kevin Locke, Russell Packer, Leeson Ah Mau, Daniel O'Regan, Patrick Ah Van (all Warriors NYC)

West Tigers - Blake Ayshford, Willie Mataka, Tim Moltzen, Alan Schirnack, Peni Tagive (all Tigers NYC)


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We have a lot of players, compared to many of the stronger teams such as Bulldogs and Dragons, that have been pulled out of the NYC division to play for first grade. This is probably due to the players stagnating at Newtown Jets (such as potentially talented blokes like Tu'u Maori), but there also must be a question about our player development. Maybe it is the atmosphere and support by the club, but the younguns at the Titans like David Mead and Esi Tonga seem to be finding the transition to NRL much smoother than our blokes. Do we feel that they are being thrown in the deep end in a situation not ideal for them? Or is there something much deeper, involving possible lack of support for our youth?

Again, it is easy to be critical, but remember that some of our established players like Pearce and Kenny-Dowall were both still eligible for U20's last season (actually Pearce is still eligible this year) but they were thrown in to first grade at a young age. They might make mistakes, but they are lightyears ahead of most others their age (Pearce is far better than Sandow).

Look at Liam Foran, Arana Taumata, Karlos Filiga and Sam Huihahau. All these players were outstanding U20 players last year, debuted in FG with middling success, but this year are now drifting between clubs in NSW Cup and QLD Cup - Foran is with the Newtown Jets (Roosters feeder), Filiga is supposed to be with Wentworthville Wolves (Eels feeder), Taumata is soon to be playing for Balmain Ryde-Eastwood Tigers (Tigers feeder) and big Sam Huihahau is struggling to make the top team for Souths Logan (Raiders feeder).

There is 2 serious issues that need to be addressed. Firstly, the environment that our youth is brought into needs to be far more positive and supportive. Right now, I get the impression that some of our staff are very pessimistic, and are giving players a sink-or-swim option, whereas teams like Titans and Bronco's are far better at blooding in youth progressively at a pace that is ideal for the individual and the team.

Secondly, the NSW Cup system needs to be revamped seriously. I mentioned before in the Newtown thread, but players lose motivation by playing for a feeder club barely affiliated with the NRL team - the detached state of the competition and the games themselves leaves the players with little reason to feel as though they are near First Grade opportunities, as opposed to the Premier League system where they played in the team jersey on the game day, before the main match. Hugely talented blokes like Tohi Leha, Robert Worsely, Tu'u Maori and others are just fading into oblivion, and it is a damn shame that a poorly devised system is the cause of this.

I am posing some serious questions here people. These are some big issues that are probably significant factors in the player drain to the UK and to other sports. Josh Cordoba, a 25 year old Eels prop, is off to Hull FC. Soliola is 23 and is off to Super League. The captain of the Panthers NYC team last year, Jamie Theoharous, is now playing in England too. This is not right...

[Guest]

The amount of players blooded isn't necessarily a reflection on the talent available a club has. I would dare say it's generally more a reflection of the club's plight at the time.

The top teams have a stable 17, notwithstanding injuries, the bottom sides are looking for answers, so players a blooded before their time, or brought into a side that is not capable of coping with their inexperience.

The NSW cup needs a massive overhaul, without question though.

[Guest]

What I find amazing is the way that the Titans youngsters seem to seamlessly move into first grade. They are given a full preseason in their preferred positions, and are eased in at a rate that is comfortable for them. With us, it is either give them little to no role on the field (like what Sa did early on, or what Ahern has been this year), or ask them to shoulder more responsibility than they should have to (Jones, Symonds, Cherrington).

Look at Esi Tonga and Kevin Gordon. Quiet but solid starts to the year, but now they are one of the most dangerous backline combos in the NRL, and are toying with defences the way that they did in NYC. They are exactly what we were meant to get out of Soliola and Roberts - a huge and powerful linebreaking centre who can create space for his outside man, and a SERIOUSLY fast winger with a knack for scoring tries in little to no space.

Esi Tonga is a poignant example of the stereotypical power centre that Soliola was meant to be, but he was developed very poorly. Soliola pt on too much muscle, lost his speed and acceleration, broke less tackles, made less offloads, and Roberts was starved of good ball.

[trewhella]

I really like the effort you put into "why" Mack??

You must be really interested in the development side of our club.

I must say that player development, welfare and injury prevention is piss poor at most clubs I have seen in the feeder comps.

You get second rate or very green physios.
You get ambitious coaches with little regard for the plight of the kids outside of footy.

[Guest]

Exactly. I think the nurturing of some of these players is disgraceful. An example is Matt Mundine, Dragons NYC lock last year. Swear to god, he looked around 120-130 kg over the off season, and had to lose a lot of weight on a short period of time for the regular NYC season this year. Just terrible nurturing by the clubs who are at least partially responsible for the health and development of these kids.

[Guest]

Exactly. I think the nurturing of some of these players is disgraceful. An example is Matt Mundine, Dragons NYC lock last year. Swear to god, he looked around 120-130 kg over the off season, and had to lose a lot of weight on a short period of time for the regular NYC season this year. Just terrible nurturing by the clubs who are at least partially responsible for the health and development of these kids.

I don't think that is necessarily a reflection on his club(s). Rumors have it the reason why he got the boot from the Dragons was for that very reason, he had the mouth and ego of his famous cousin. He refused to take nutritional advice or show any dedication to his fitness, and would have no problem in saying it to those who questioned him.

It's a shame though, he'll be another one of those blokes with all the talent in the world, never to make first grade. Too fat and slow for the backs, too lazy for the forwards.

[Rooster_6]

There is a bloke in our NYC team called Fine Moeakiola, forget Earl and Tuigumala. If this bloke can stay injury free he will be a star.

Top 50 Teenagers (thought you might like this Mack if you haven't already seen it)

1. Israel Falou Melbourne Storm
2. Mitchell Pearce Sydney Roosters
3. Joe Westerman Castleford Tigers
4. Chris Sandow South Sydney Rabbitohs
5. Ben Matulino NZ Warriors
6. Lachlan Coote Penrith Panthers
7. Russell Packer NZ Warriors
8. Kyle Eastmond St Helens
9. Wade Graham Penrith Panthers
10. Jamal Idris Canterbury Bulldogs
11 Ben Hunt Brisbane Broncos
12 Josh Dugan Canberra Raiders
13 Ben Barba Canterbury Bulldogs
14 Sam McKendry Penrith Panthers
15 Kevin Proctor Melbourne Storm
16 Richard Myler Salford City Reds
17 Luke Capewell South Sydney Rabbitohs
18 Shannon Walker Gold Coast Titans
19 Richard Owen Castleford Tigers
20 Sam Tomkins Wigan Warriors
21 Chase Stanley St George Illawarra Dragons
22 Ben Jones Sydney Roosters
23 Tom Briscoe Hull FC
24 Jayson Bukuya Cronulla Sharks
25 Jordan Turner Salford City Reds
26 Joseph Tomane Melbourne Storm
27 Arana Traumata Melbourne Storm
28 Kevin Locke NZ Warriors)
29 Martin Kennedy Sydney Roosters
30 Jordan Rapana Gold Coast Titans
31 Michael Lawrence Huddersfield Giants
32 Anthony Mitchell Parramatta Eels
33 Jarrod Crocker Canberra Raiders
34 Simon Dwyer Wests Tigers
35 Leeson Ah Mau NZ Warriors
36 Lee Mossop Wigan Warriors
37 Sam Joe Melbourne Storm
38 Sean Ainscough Wigan Warriors
39 Jordan Rankin Gold Coast Titans
40 Kallum Watkins Leeds Rhinos
41 Matthew Wright Cronulla Sharks
42 Daniel Mortimer Parramatta Eels
43 Matt Mundine South Sydney
44 Daniel Vidot Canberra Raiders
45 Albert Kelly Parramatta Eels
46 Will Tupou Brisbane Broncos
47 Jared Waerea-Hargreaves Manly Sea Eagles
48 Andrew McCullough Brisbane Broncos
49 Peter Mata’utai Newcastle Knights
50 William Hopoate Manly Sea Eagles

[OMR]

There is a bloke in our NYC team called Fine Moeakiola, forget Earl and Tuigumala. If this bloke can stay injury free he will be a star.

Top 50 Teenagers (thought you might like this Mack if you haven't already seen it)

1. Israel Falou Melbourne Storm
2. Mitchell Pearce Sydney Roosters
3. Joe Westerman Castleford Tigers
4. Chris Sandow South Sydney Rabbitohs
5. Ben Matulino NZ Warriors
6. Lachlan Coote Penrith Panthers
7. Russell Packer NZ Warriors
8. Kyle Eastmond St Helens
9. Wade Graham Penrith Panthers
10. Jamal Idris Canterbury Bulldogs
11 Ben Hunt Brisbane Broncos
12 Josh Dugan Canberra Raiders
13 Ben Barba Canterbury Bulldogs
14 Sam McKendry Penrith Panthers
15 Kevin Proctor Melbourne Storm
16 Richard Myler Salford City Reds
17 Luke Capewell South Sydney Rabbitohs
18 Shannon Walker Gold Coast Titans
19 Richard Owen Castleford Tigers
20 Sam Tomkins Wigan Warriors
21 Chase Stanley St George Illawarra Dragons
22 Ben Jones Sydney Roosters
23 Tom Briscoe Hull FC
24 Jayson Bukuya Cronulla Sharks
25 Jordan Turner Salford City Reds
26 Joseph Tomane Melbourne Storm
27 Arana Traumata Melbourne Storm
28 Kevin Locke NZ Warriors)
29 Martin Kennedy Sydney Roosters
30 Jordan Rapana Gold Coast Titans
31 Michael Lawrence Huddersfield Giants
32 Anthony Mitchell Parramatta Eels
33 Jarrod Crocker Canberra Raiders
34 Simon Dwyer Wests Tigers
35 Leeson Ah Mau NZ Warriors
36 Lee Mossop Wigan Warriors
37 Sam Joe Melbourne Storm
38 Sean Ainscough Wigan Warriors
39 Jordan Rankin Gold Coast Titans
40 Kallum Watkins Leeds Rhinos
41 Matthew Wright Cronulla Sharks
42 Daniel Mortimer Parramatta Eels
43 Matt Mundine South Sydney
44 Daniel Vidot Canberra Raiders
45 Albert Kelly Parramatta Eels
46 Will Tupou Brisbane Broncos
47 Jared Waerea-Hargreaves Manly Sea Eagles
48 Andrew McCullough Brisbane Broncos
49 Peter Mata’utai Newcastle Knights
50 William Hopoate Manly Sea Eagles

How can I rate this with any credibility when it has Sandow at 4?

[Rooster_6]

How can I rate this with any credibility when it has Sandow at 4?

With the right coach Sandow can do wonders... much like your boy Soward... his defence is poor but in attack there's not many players like him.

[Guest]

With the right coach Sandow can do wonders... much like your boy Soward... his defence is poor but in attack there's not many players like him.

Sandow takes poor defence to a whole new level. Can be creative, but takes so many poor options.

[Rooster_6]

Sandow takes poor defence to a whole new level. Can be creative, but takes so many poor options.

Whole knew level in being dumb... yes. Give him a good spray and stick Beau Scott next to him and his defence will improve ten fold. He will never develop at Souths which makes me sleep easy at night but I still think he's a very talented player.

[Guest]

Sandow has far less try assists, linebreak assists, linebreaks, tries and tackle breaks than Pearce. Also, Sandow has less completed tackes, and FAR more missed tackles too.

Sandow is a dud so far this season, statistically the worst regular halfback in the NRL.

[Rooster_6]

Sandow has far less try assists, linebreak assists, linebreaks, tries and tackle breaks than Pearce. Also, Sandow has less completed tackes, and FAR more missed tackles too.

Sandow is a dud so far this season, statistically the worst regular halfback in the NRL.

Since when did 1 equal far less?

Pearce's running game this season has been very good as has his long kicking game but it's his ball playing that has let him down... more a reflection of his forward pack I'd say... in fairness to Sandow his forward pack isn't going too much better so it's expected. Although his running game and long kicking game has also been very poor... forget statistics he is currently the worst halfback in the comp by quite a distance.

[Guest]

Whole knew level in being dumb... yes. Give him a good spray and stick Beau Scott next to him and his defence will improve ten fold. He will never develop at Souths which makes me sleep easy at night but I still think he's a very talented player.

Much of Sandow's defensive liabilities don't lie in his inability to tackle in the line, it's his rushing out of the line to try and put on a big hit and very rarely succeeding that leads to his poor defence. That is completely mental, and something a coach would be on him about every game, yet never seems to get through.

No question he's very talented, but most of what he does is pre-meditated, and it's almost always for himself. It makes him very predictable to defend against, you can spot which play he's going to put on before he does it. He's not a smart player at picking and choosing his plays whatsoever. He could develop into a good halfback if he learns to play in a team, but some players never learn, Sandow may be one of them IMO.

[Rooster_6]

Much of Sandow's defensive liabilities don't lie in his inability to tackle in the line, it's his rushing out of the line to try and put on a big hit and very rarely succeeding that leads to his poor defence. That is completely mental, and something a coach would be on him about every game, yet never seems to get through.

No question he's very talented, but most of what he does is pre-meditated, and it's almost always for himself. It makes him very predictable to defend against, you can spot which play he's going to put on before he does it. He's not a smart player at picking and choosing his plays whatsoever. He could develop into a good halfback if he learns to play in a team, but some players never learn, Sandow may be one of them IMO.

Can't disagree with any of that. I hate stereotypes but I think Sandow will go down as another one of these talented aboriginal halfbacks who never had the mental attributes needed for NRL footy.