Gloating Buzz

[Guest]

Roll the Dice.

I like it.

[Guest]

Chook, if you believe that management supporting players, and players accepting responsibility for their own performances is some of "the dumbest shit" you have read, then it would explain why you are prepared to stick with the same knee-jerk loser mentality of blaming individuals which has seen us under-achieve nearly every year since Freddy stopped playing.

It would also explain why you can't understand how this simple approach has worked so succesfully at Manly. They could have very easily yielded (like us) to pressure from the media or their sponsors and sacked Brett Stewart, which in turn would have pissed off his brother and other players and there is no way they would recovered to win a premiership. Instead Manly used it to their advantage and created a siege mentality in telling Gallop and the media to go f*ck themselves.

To answer your latest question. If a player isn't performing week on week then he should be dropped, no excuses. I never said they should not have dumped Carney for playing poorly. Although I question whether (after he recovered from injury) he played as badly as what people are making out. Anyone who expected Carney to achieve the same heights as 2010 under a different set of rules (slower play-the-ball) and with slower outside backs to work with, has a very poor understanding of the game.


BF, if this is a professional sport then players should be professional and perform their best regardless of what other players are doing off the field (Carney, Myles, etc), or whether they agree with the coaches instructions (CA, Freddy). Funny how you are very quick to shoot down Carney for being unprofessional but totally clueless in recognising the lack of professionalism in the remainder of the team.

You yourself are blaming individuals, you're just doing it under a different guise. Saying we have a loser and unprofessional mentality is the same as saying we have individual losers and individuals who aren't professional, so there goes your high horse.

Manly have done this primarily with respect to two players, Stewart and Watmough. Both drink, but do not have the problems Todd does - when they drink, they don't get depressed, and they perform on the field. Chook makes a very good point - if we let the drinkers in our team, the Pearces, SKDs, JWHs, and previously the Carneys, drink and party as much as they want, years such as 2009/2011 suggest we'll see a significant decline in their on field performances. By your plan, we then drop them for playing like shit, we then have half our salary cap in reserve grade.

You are living with the fairies mate. You think these blokes are robots who irrespective of what is going on around the team will play individually to their full potential because of "professionalism." There isn't a single club in the NRL where there is a shit team culture but the team does well because individuals ignore it. That does not happen.

What you are looking for is a team where we get a bunch of tough, good footy players, let them drink to their hearts content, say fuuck you to the powers that be and win footy games. I would like to have a threesome with Minka Kelly and Jennifer Hawkins, but it isn't going to happen, no matter how much I whinge about it on internet forums.

If we let the drinkers drink, the drinkers on field fitness will drop. That is scientific fact. As their on field performances drop, by your logic we drop them. So we then have all these tough and talented footy players in reserve grade, because we gave them free reign to drink as they please. We now have all our salary cap getting p!ssed and playing Saturday arvos for Newtown, and field a reserve grade team in FG and get belted.

You've got to be joking.

[Guest]

Chook, if you believe that management supporting players, and players accepting responsibility for their own performances is some of "the dumbest shit" you have read, then it would explain why you are prepared to stick with the same knee-jerk loser mentality of blaming individuals which has seen us under-achieve nearly every year since Freddy stopped playing.

WTF are talking about, you make is sound like we never supported Carney. Our management supported Carney, to the bloody enth degree! We had him a personal councillor, a case manager, a rehab program (which he agreed with). We supported him at court, at NRL headquarters, at media conferences and all we got in return was shit form, a shit attitude and a shit season from one Todd Carney.

It would also explain why you can't understand how this simple approach has worked so succesfully at Manly. They could have very easily yielded (like us) to pressure from the media or their sponsors and sacked Brett Stewart, which in turn would have pissed off his brother and other players and there is no way they would recovered to win a premiership. Instead Manly used it to their advantage and created a siege mentality in telling Gallop and the media to go f*ck themselves.

Yes but all the Brett Stewart shit happened while he was out of the game for 2 years with knee injuries. If he was playing at the time it would have been very different outcome imo. Do you honestly believe Manly players are given free reign to party as much as they want too and that’s why they are successful?

To answer your latest question. If a player isn't performing week on week then he should be dropped, no excuses. I never said they should not have dumped Carney for playing poorly. Although I question whether (after he recovered from injury) he played as badly as what people are making out. Anyone who expected Carney to achieve the same heights as 2010 under a different set of rules (slower play-the-ball) and with slower outside backs to work with, has a very poor understanding of the game.

No excuses? So in other words you’d let them keep partying but drop them because their form is bad even if it was because of their partying?

BF, if this is a professional sport then players should be professional and perform their best regardless of what other players are doing off the field (Carney, Myles, etc), or whether they agree with the coaches instructions (CA, Freddy). Funny how you are very quick to shoot down Carney for being unprofessional but totally clueless in recognising the lack of professionalism in the remainder of the team.

It is also a team sport and any coach in any team sport will tell you that one player can disrupt a team as fast and as effective as one player can ignite it!

Chook.

[Guest]

Scientific fact..lol..Where did you get that beauty from? Why haven't any of the teams conformed to this scientific proof to give them an edge on the opposition?

I don't need science to tell me that any team who tries to ban drinking will be more chance of a wooden spoon than a premiership as players rush out the exit doors for another team.


Stewart and Watmough can handle their drink better than Pearce, SKD, and JWH....lol...That'll do me.

[stsae]

Nah.

You're a ****in nutcase.

Lol, You're probably right. And probably a shandy sorta guy anyways.

The question remains why did you make the point of quoting my post and tell me you are on the Tweed today???

Of course we don't have to have a beer, we can JusT make sweet love, if thats what floats your boat.

[Guest]

You can't say the club is dumb for sacking him. There's a limit to how many stupid things you can do before you get sacked by a club and he had too many chances for his own good.

[stsae]

Chook, if you believe that management supporting players, and players accepting responsibility for their own performances is some of "the dumbest shit" you have read, then it would explain why you are prepared to stick with the same knee-jerk loser mentality of blaming individuals which has seen us under-achieve nearly every year since Freddy stopped playing.

It would also explain why you can't understand how this simple approach has worked so succesfully at Manly. They could have very easily yielded (like us) to pressure from the media or their sponsors and sacked Brett Stewart, which in turn would have pissed off his brother and other players and there is no way they would recovered to win a premiership. Instead Manly used it to their advantage and created a siege mentality in telling Gallop and the media to go f*ck themselves.

To answer your latest question. If a player isn't performing week on week then he should be dropped, no excuses. I never said they should not have dumped Carney for playing poorly. Although I question whether (after he recovered from injury) he played as badly as what people are making out. Anyone who expected Carney to achieve the same heights as 2010 under a different set of rules (slower play-the-ball) and with slower outside backs to work with, has a very poor understanding of the game.


BF, if this is a professional sport then players should be professional and perform their best regardless of what other players are doing off the field (Carney, Myles, etc), or whether they agree with the coaches instructions (CA, Freddy). Funny how you are very quick to shoot down Carney for being unprofessional but totally clueless in recognising the lack of professionalism in the remainder of the team.

I agree with most of what you've said, especially the bolded part Dice, I've been saying we have a soft mentality as a club for years now.

I do wonder a few things.

PlumbBob has stated that Carntey asked for a release. Now if that's the case, considering his shit form last season, why would we even try to retain a player who doesnt want to be here??? Cos from what I saw last season Carntey tanked it, he ran dead. Sure he had an injury but when he wanted to he was able to pull off a big play or 3, but it was only when he wanted to.

That sort of attitude isn't what ANY club needs. Sure there may have been some internal problems but any player that tanks on field isn't worth keeping. I've seen plenty of players who are on the outer, some even get benched or dropped, and the ones who are the really mentally tough force their way back into the top side and often get new contracts on the back of that effort.

You can't tell me Carntey couldn't have had a real hot go last season and forced us to retain his services??? Instead of the reverse which forced us to cut our losses.

I'm only talking on field stuff here. I am one of those who doesn't care about off field stuff, like you it would seem. I saw 1st hand the way some of our blokes acted off he field from 00-04 and it never affected their on field performance. They were all mentally tough characters though and we were a mentally tough club thru that period IMO.

[Guest]

Lol, You're probably right. And probably a shandy sorta guy anyways.

The question remains why did you make the point of quoting my post and tell me you are on the Tweed today???

Of course we don't have to have a beer, we can JusT make sweet love, if thats what floats your boat.

This is strictly a hit and run mission.

[Headless Chook]

Scientific fact..lol..Where did you get that beauty from? Why haven't any of the teams conformed to this scientific proof to give them an edge on the opposition? I don't need science to tell me that any team who tries to ban drinking will be more chance of a wooden spoon than a premiership as players rush out the exit doors for another team.


Stewart and Watmough can handle their drink better than Pearce, SKD, and JWH....lol...That'll do me.

I think you will find that all clubs ban drinking within a set timeframe out from a game, not sure whether its 3 or 4 days. Good to see you're one of those guys who bucks the trend and performs better when you're hungover to high hell.....there's always a few in every team who think they perform better on the grog but the reality is their overall performance level is crap, its just that the alcoholic haze tends to cloud their overall judgement.

[Guest]

Scientific fact..lol..Where did you get that beauty from? Why haven't any of the teams conformed to this scientific proof to give them an edge on the opposition?

I don't need science to tell me that any team who tries to ban drinking will be more chance of a wooden spoon than a premiership as players rush out the exit doors for another team.


Stewart and Watmough can handle their drink better than Pearce, SKD, and JWH....lol...That'll do me.

If you honestly think that heavy drinking does not have a negative impact on an athlete's performance, you are beyond stupid.

I have not supported a drinking ban. I believe the players should want to win enough that they realise excessive partying isn't going to help their cause. If they don't, then fuuck them off. They shouldn't need to have it banned for them to set reasonable limits.

I didn't say they could handle their drink better you moron, I said that ostensibly, Watmough's and Stewart's on field performance isn't affected in the same way as our blokes' efforts were in '09 and '11. It has nothing to do with their behaviour while drinking, but how it influences what they do on the field.

Enjoy fairy land you nuffie.

[Guest]

I agree with most of what you've said, especially the bolded part Dice, I've been saying we have a soft mentality as a club for years now.

I do wonder a few things.

PlumbBob has stated that Carntey asked for a release. Now if that's the case, considering his shit form last season, why would we even try to retain a player who doesnt want to be here??? Cos from what I saw last season Carntey tanked it, he ran dead. Sure he had an injury but when he wanted to he was able to pull off a big play or 3, but it was only when he wanted to.
That sort of attitude isn't what ANY club needs. Sure there may have been some internal problems but any player that tanks on field isn't worth keeping. I've seen plenty of players who are on the outer, some even get benched or dropped, and the ones who are the really mentally tough force their way back into the top side and often get new contracts on the back of that effort.

You can't tell me Carntey couldn't have had a real hot go last season and forced us to retain his services??? Instead of the reverse which forced us to cut our losses.

I'm only talking on field stuff here. I am one of those who doesn't care about off field stuff, like you it would seem. I saw 1st hand the way some of our blokes acted off he field from 00-04 and it never affected their on field performance. They were all mentally tough characters though and we were a mentally tough club thru that period IMO.

This bit is a little misleading. Carney asked for a release after being stood down indefinitely. It was framed this way to suit both parties but let's not pretend he wouldn't have been sacked if he didn't ask for a release.

[Guest]

Chook,

Whether we supported Carney is highly debatable. From where I sit he had a misdemeanor at the start of the year and we treated him like a criminal, and then he had idiotic drinking bans forced on him. Meanwhile the club knew he was still drinking all along and accepted it until the media found out. They betrayed him because it was easier to piss him off than deal with the media fallout. The complete opposite of the way Manly handled Stewart and Watmough.

Players know their drinking limits and the consequences of turning up to a game hungover. Don't be an ass like BF and try to make out that players like Stewart and Watmough drink any less or can handle their drink any better than the party boys at the roosters. Manly players get plastered at every opportunity and still turn up on game day. By your theories and BF's made up scientific theories they should never have won a premiership yet they are the most successful NRL club in recent years.

Regarding disrupting the team. One player who has issues should not affect the on-field performances of the remaining players. If it does then there are more serious issues at play within the team. I am much more concerned about certain seniors players who have fragmented the team on more than one occasion in recent years by turning on other players or coaching staff.


stsae,
Carney did what anyone else would do when they know they are about to be fired. i.e. get in first and resign. I am not convinced he wanted to leave. In fact, I have been told the opposite. Don't believe the rothfield bs.

[mightyrooster]

Chook,

Whether we supported Carney is highly debatable. From where I sit he had a misdemeanor at the start of the year and we treated him like a criminal, and then he had idiotic drinking bans forced on him. Meanwhile the club knew he was still drinking all along and accepted it until the media found out. They betrayed him because it was easier to piss him off than deal with the media fallout. The complete opposite of the way Manly handled Stewart and Watmough.

Players know their drinking limits and the consequences of turning up to a game hungover. Don't be an ass like BF and try to make out that players like Stewart and Watmough drink any less or can handle their drink any better than the party boys at the roosters. Manly players get plastered at every opportunity and still turn up on game day. By your theories and BF's made up scientific theories they should never have won a premiership yet they are the most successful NRL club in recent years.

Regarding disrupting the team. One player who has issues should not affect the on-field performances of the remaining players. If it does then there are more serious issues at play within the team. I am much more concerned about certain seniors players who have fragmented the team on more than one occasion in recent years by turning on other players or coaching staff.


stsae,
Carney did what anyone else would do when they know they are about to be fired. i.e. get in first and resign. I am not convinced he wanted to leave. In fact, I have been told the opposite. Don't believe the rothfield bs.

And what about Carney's promise to a Judge that he would not drink again because he was an alcoholic????? That was not the clubn who forced an idiotic drinking ban on him. That was Carney himself making fake promises which he knew he had no intention of keeping. And if memory serves me correctly it was idiots like Rothfield who wanted him locked up like a criminal NOT the club, who supported him.

[Guest]

Is that the promise to the judge that didn't know their own laws in that you can't get locked up for a misdemeanor?

[stsae]

This bit is a little misleading. Carney asked for a release after being stood down indefinitely. It was framed this way to suit both parties but let's not pretend he wouldn't have been sacked if he didn't ask for a release.

Fair call mate.

Still being sacked wouldnt he have copped a payout???

Or maybe not cos he'd have had clauses written into his contract that I guess he broke.


And Dice I didnt believe 1 word of Rothwitts crud I read here, I haven't read his rag for years now. I also thought it was telling what Carntey Twatted, the exact opposite of what Rothwitt wrote.

What I don't think is we should be too harsh on the club over this issue. They had to make a decision going forward, they know what's been going on better than all of us combined and let's face it Carntey doesn't seem to angry at our club. There's a lot in that IMO, he doesnt appear bitter, just wants to move on. As should we really.

This infighting, this is what Rothwitt wanted by writing that tripe. Only fools do what fools want them to do IMO.

I'm also with you Dice concerning Bwaiff. Our softness IMO coincides with his arriving. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I've never liked him as a footballer and IMO our results since his arrival have proven that point. I've also noticed our dramatic form reversals over the years he's been here, it's always been very strange how in one game we can just go from duds to world beaters. SomeTingWong IMO.

I'm hoping for stability from now on. And I'm interested to see how the Pearces go post Bwaiff. I've always thought it's tough judging some of our kids, especially Pearce, they've come thru a very strange era IMO.